windows 8 oem licensing horrors?

Discussion in 'DIY Computers' started by Tired, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Just took delivery of a zoostorm pc with windows 8.

    Notice that the box contains no reference to windows, and it has no sticker
    on the side with a product key. W8 is preinstalled and apparently comes with
    a media creator tool (usb stick only, no dvds).

    Curious about this i have done a bit of reading up about their new licensing
    system, in which each bios contains a unique encrypted key, but no COA on
    the side means this key is not viewable by the user.

    This creates a whole series of potential issues:

    i) i doubt more than 10% of users make a recovery disk, and that's even when
    they are reminded on every boot up. The recovery options in the oem W8 are
    not advertised and need to be hunted via searching 'recovery'.

    ii) By bios locking windows 8 without an alternative means of demonstrating
    your license means that *when* (not if) your motherboard finally dies your
    license dies with it. Your recovery media will not work, and neither will
    any generic disk work on your replacement board you bought at
    pcworld/ebay/ebuyer.

    If you are in warranty of course your manufacturer will come and swap out
    your board for a replacement one, presumably with the necessary bios key to
    activate, but what happens if you are one year and a day out of your
    warranty and your motherboard dies? Not only do you have to buy a new
    motherboard, but you will also need to buy a full retail copy of windows 8.

    MS have always tried to claim that motherboards and licenses are linked to
    each other, but have confused the issue by claiming the license and the pc
    are linked, not just the motherboard.

    If my out of warranty motherboard dies, why should i need a new license?

    This is going to be a nightmare in a year or two.

    Am i getting it wrong here?
     
    Tired, Jan 7, 2013
    #1
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  2. Tired

    Bernard Peek Guest

    If it's an OEM license then the license dies with the machine whether
    you have recovery media or not. If you have the necessary knowledge you
    can possibly get the system functioning again but without a legitimate
    license.
     
    Bernard Peek, Jan 7, 2013
    #2
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  3. Tired

    Chris Whelan Guest

    On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:45:13 +0000, Tired wrote:

    [...]
    Yes. You are using Windows 8.

    Chris
     
    Chris Whelan, Jan 7, 2013
    #3
  4. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Bernard Peek wrote:
    :: On 07/01/13 14:45, Tired wrote:
    ::
    ::
    ::: ii) By bios locking windows 8 without an alternative means of
    ::: demonstrating your license means that *when* (not if) your
    ::: motherboard finally dies your license dies with it. Your recovery
    ::: media will not work, and neither will any generic disk work on your
    ::: replacement board you bought at pcworld/ebay/ebuyer.
    :::
    ::
    :: If it's an OEM license then the license dies with the machine whether
    :: you have recovery media or not. If you have the necessary knowledge
    :: you can possibly get the system functioning again but without a
    :: legitimate license.
    ::

    Who said anything about a machine dying? Can you point me to the terms of
    the license agreement that say you cannot replace a dead motherboard?

    :: --
    :: Bernard Peek
    ::
     
    Tired, Jan 7, 2013
    #4
  5. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Chris Whelan wrote:
    :: On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:45:13 +0000, Tired wrote:
    ::
    :: [...]
    ::
    ::: Am i getting it wrong here?
    ::
    :: Yes. You are using Windows 8.
    ::
    :: Chris
    ::

    It's not about my windows, it's about trying to get others up and running.
     
    Tired, Jan 7, 2013
    #5
  6. Tired

    Rob Morley Guest

    Are you perhaps confusing the Secure Boot encrypted key, used to sign
    the boot image, with the license key?
     
    Rob Morley, Jan 7, 2013
    #6
  7. Tired

    Chronos Guest

    B73%!ur~>X:^[email protected]+VaMV>l\[email protected][x`#&AHSdl`m<-EEhk=1%t9iRthI|;~8)[email protected]}x5l:zhDO(.as
    NeO!\oL7huHfsoF'I5,0G+Yo[G-G"FG,l`QJ$IgwH/[\a]vRH^'=`;cY+*_{Or`
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:+qFgqxa44s29uJSj9woVnhtPmVA=
    Bytes: 2121
    Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com uk.comp.homebuilt:241527

    I think he's talking about "SLIC," Rob, which embeds a certificate into
    the BIOS "software licensing table" that the OS checks to ensure it is
    running on an authorised machine.
     
    Chronos, Jan 7, 2013
    #7
  8. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Rob Morley wrote:
    :: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:45:13 -0000
    ::
    ::: Curious about this i have done a bit of reading up about their new
    ::: licensing system, in which each bios contains a unique encrypted
    ::: key, but no COA on the side means this key is not viewable by the
    ::: user.
    :::
    :: Are you perhaps confusing the Secure Boot encrypted key, used to sign
    :: the boot image, with the license key?

    Well whatever they call it. Users used to have a shiny sticker on the side
    of their machine with a unique product key which could be used to install
    their license on their existing machine no matter how the configuration
    changed.

    What happens now when their motherboard dies after eighteen months?
     
    Tired, Jan 7, 2013
    #8
  9. Tired

    Chris Whelan Guest

    On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:59:10 +0000, Tired wrote:

    [...]
    That's not strictly true.

    Ignoring the legal situation, if you purchased an OEM version of XP, you
    could indeed install it on anything. However, there was a third type of
    release, used by the larger builders, that was tied to their own
    motherboard.

    An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another machine if
    it had the same BIOS for example.
    That is going to be interesting; I suspect most MB's will last at least
    three years however, and most consumers will accept that as a reasonable
    lifespan.

    Chris
     
    Chris Whelan, Jan 8, 2013
    #9
  10. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Chris Whelan wrote:
    :: On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:59:10 +0000, Tired wrote:
    ::
    :: [...]
    ::
    ::: Well whatever they call it. Users used to have a shiny sticker on
    ::: the side of their machine with a unique product key which could be
    ::: used to install their license on their existing machine no matter
    ::: how the configuration changed.
    ::
    :: That's not strictly true.
    ::
    :: Ignoring the legal situation, if you purchased an OEM version of XP,
    :: you could indeed install it on anything. However, there was a third
    :: type of release, used by the larger builders, that was tied to their
    :: own motherboard.
    ::
    :: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another
    :: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.

    But the license key would work on any machine, and would be activated by
    microsoft, even if initial activation failed.


    ::: What happens now when their motherboard dies after eighteen months?
    ::
    :: That is going to be interesting; I suspect most MB's will last at
    :: least three years however, and most consumers will accept that as a
    :: reasonable lifespan

    All goods can fail in a short space of time. There is something unseemly
    about how this will play into hands of sellers offering extended warranties.


    :: Chris
    ::
     
    Tired, Jan 8, 2013
    #10
  11. Tired

    Chris Whelan Guest

    On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:34:47 +0000, Tired wrote:

    [...]
    Not IME.
    Not if you told them that you were using it on non-original hardware.

    Chris
     
    Chris Whelan, Jan 8, 2013
    #11
  12. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Chris Whelan wrote:
    :: On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:34:47 +0000, Tired wrote:
    ::
    :: [...]
    ::
    ::::: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another ::
    ::: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.
    :::
    ::: But the license key would work on any machine,
    ::
    :: Not IME.
    ::
    ::: and would be activated by
    ::: microsoft, even if initial activation failed.
    ::
    :: Not if you told them that you were using it on non-original hardware.
    ::
    :: Chris

    I have *never* had Microsoft refuse activation for replacement of a non
    original hardware, and I have replaced probably close to two to three
    hundred dead motherboards. In fact, can you point me to an EULA that would
    allow them to do it?
     
    Tired, Jan 8, 2013
    #12
  13. Tired

    Chris Whelan Guest

    On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:56:17 +0000, Tired wrote:

    [...]
    Perhaps I should have been clearer. Companies like Tiny supplied copies
    of XP on CD's that were visually branded to them. If you tried to use one
    on either the original machine with a different MB, or in any other
    situation, the install wouldn't even begin.

    (I did say:
    An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only *install* on another machine
    if it had the same BIOS for example.)

    I was making the point that the situation in that case was not dissimilar
    from the one that W8 users may face in the future.
    Nope. Never read one in my life.

    Chris
     
    Chris Whelan, Jan 8, 2013
    #13
  14. Tired

    Tired Guest

    Chris Whelan wrote:
    :: On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:56:17 +0000, Tired wrote:
    ::
    :: [...]
    ::
    ::: I have *never* had Microsoft refuse activation for replacement of a
    ::: non original hardware, and I have replaced probably close to two to
    ::: three hundred dead motherboards.
    ::
    :: Perhaps I should have been clearer. Companies like Tiny supplied
    :: copies of XP on CD's that were visually branded to them. If you
    :: tried to use one on either the original machine with a different MB,
    :: or in any other situation, the install wouldn't even begin.

    Oh yes, of course, i was referring to the license, with the product key
    rather than the recovery media.


    :: (I did say:
    :: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only *install* on another
    :: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.)
    ::
    :: I was making the point that the situation in that case was not
    :: dissimilar from the one that W8 users may face in the future.
    ::
    ::: In fact, can you point me to an EULA that
    ::: would allow them to do it?
    ::
    :: Nope. Never read one in my life.
    ::
    :: Chris
     
    Tired, Jan 8, 2013
    #14
  15. Tired

    johannes Guest

    Before Rob Morley slays me down as a numpty, I free admit that the last
    OEM installatoin I did was XP. None of my motherboards have failed BTW
    Now that the situation has become more complicated with BIOS locking,
    will you be able e.g. to install LINUX on a machine which was
    originally 'born' with Windows8?
     
    johannes, Jan 13, 2013
    #15
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