windows 8 oem licensing horrors?

Just took delivery of a zoostorm pc with windows 8.

Notice that the box contains no reference to windows, and it has no sticker
on the side with a product key. W8 is preinstalled and apparently comes with
a media creator tool (usb stick only, no dvds).

Curious about this i have done a bit of reading up about their new licensing
system, in which each bios contains a unique encrypted key, but no COA on
the side means this key is not viewable by the user.

This creates a whole series of potential issues:

i) i doubt more than 10% of users make a recovery disk, and that's even when
they are reminded on every boot up. The recovery options in the oem W8 are
not advertised and need to be hunted via searching 'recovery'.

ii) By bios locking windows 8 without an alternative means of demonstrating
your license means that *when* (not if) your motherboard finally dies your
license dies with it. Your recovery media will not work, and neither will
any generic disk work on your replacement board you bought at
pcworld/ebay/ebuyer.

If you are in warranty of course your manufacturer will come and swap out
your board for a replacement one, presumably with the necessary bios key to
activate, but what happens if you are one year and a day out of your
warranty and your motherboard dies? Not only do you have to buy a new
motherboard, but you will also need to buy a full retail copy of windows 8.

MS have always tried to claim that motherboards and licenses are linked to
each other, but have confused the issue by claiming the license and the pc
are linked, not just the motherboard.

If my out of warranty motherboard dies, why should i need a new license?

This is going to be a nightmare in a year or two.

Am i getting it wrong here?

 

If it's an OEM license then the license dies with the machine whether
you have recovery media or not. If you have the necessary knowledge you
can possibly get the system functioning again but without a legitimate
license.

 

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:45:13 +0000, Tired wrote:

[...]

Yes. You are using Windows 8.

Chris

 

Bernard Peek wrote:
:: On 07/01/13 14:45, Tired wrote:
::
::
::: ii) By bios locking windows 8 without an alternative means of
::: demonstrating your license means that *when* (not if) your
::: motherboard finally dies your license dies with it. Your recovery
::: media will not work, and neither will any generic disk work on your
::: replacement board you bought at pcworld/ebay/ebuyer.
:::
::
:: If it's an OEM license then the license dies with the machine whether
:: you have recovery media or not. If you have the necessary knowledge
:: you can possibly get the system functioning again but without a
:: legitimate license.
::

Who said anything about a machine dying? Can you point me to the terms of
the license agreement that say you cannot replace a dead motherboard?

:: --
:: Bernard Peek
::

 

Chris Whelan wrote:
:: On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 14:45:13 +0000, Tired wrote:
::
:: [...]
::
::: Am i getting it wrong here?
::
:: Yes. You are using Windows 8.
::
:: Chris
::

It's not about my windows, it's about trying to get others up and running.

 

Are you perhaps confusing the Secure Boot encrypted key, used to sign
the boot image, with the license key?

 

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NeO!\oL7huHfsoF'I5,0G+Yo[G-G"FG,l`QJ$IgwH/[\a]vRH^'=`;cY+*_{Or`
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+qFgqxa44s29uJSj9woVnhtPmVA=
Bytes: 2121
Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com uk.comp.homebuilt:241527

I think he's talking about "SLIC," Rob, which embeds a certificate into
the BIOS "software licensing table" that the OS checks to ensure it is
running on an authorised machine.

 

Rob Morley wrote:
:: On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 14:45:13 -0000
::
::: Curious about this i have done a bit of reading up about their new
::: licensing system, in which each bios contains a unique encrypted
::: key, but no COA on the side means this key is not viewable by the
::: user.
:::
:: Are you perhaps confusing the Secure Boot encrypted key, used to sign
:: the boot image, with the license key?

Well whatever they call it. Users used to have a shiny sticker on the side
of their machine with a unique product key which could be used to install
their license on their existing machine no matter how the configuration
changed.

What happens now when their motherboard dies after eighteen months?

 

On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:59:10 +0000, Tired wrote:

[...]

That's not strictly true.

Ignoring the legal situation, if you purchased an OEM version of XP, you
could indeed install it on anything. However, there was a third type of
release, used by the larger builders, that was tied to their own
motherboard.

An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another machine if
it had the same BIOS for example.

That is going to be interesting; I suspect most MB's will last at least
three years however, and most consumers will accept that as a reasonable
lifespan.

Chris

 

Chris Whelan wrote:
:: On Mon, 07 Jan 2013 21:59:10 +0000, Tired wrote:
::
:: [...]
::
::: Well whatever they call it. Users used to have a shiny sticker on
::: the side of their machine with a unique product key which could be
::: used to install their license on their existing machine no matter
::: how the configuration changed.
::
:: That's not strictly true.
::
:: Ignoring the legal situation, if you purchased an OEM version of XP,
:: you could indeed install it on anything. However, there was a third
:: type of release, used by the larger builders, that was tied to their
:: own motherboard.
::
:: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another
:: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.

But the license key would work on any machine, and would be activated by
microsoft, even if initial activation failed.


::: What happens now when their motherboard dies after eighteen months?
::
:: That is going to be interesting; I suspect most MB's will last at
:: least three years however, and most consumers will accept that as a
:: reasonable lifespan

All goods can fail in a short space of time. There is something unseemly
about how this will play into hands of sellers offering extended warranties.


:: Chris
::

 

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:34:47 +0000, Tired wrote:

[...]

Not IME.

Not if you told them that you were using it on non-original hardware.

Chris

 

Chris Whelan wrote:
:: On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:34:47 +0000, Tired wrote:
::
:: [...]
::
::::: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only install on another ::
::: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.
:::
::: But the license key would work on any machine,
::
:: Not IME.
::
::: and would be activated by
::: microsoft, even if initial activation failed.
::
:: Not if you told them that you were using it on non-original hardware.
::
:: Chris

I have *never* had Microsoft refuse activation for replacement of a non
original hardware, and I have replaced probably close to two to three
hundred dead motherboards. In fact, can you point me to an EULA that would
allow them to do it?

 

On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:56:17 +0000, Tired wrote:

[...]

Perhaps I should have been clearer. Companies like Tiny supplied copies
of XP on CD's that were visually branded to them. If you tried to use one
on either the original machine with a different MB, or in any other
situation, the install wouldn't even begin.

(I did say:
An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only *install* on another machine
if it had the same BIOS for example.)

I was making the point that the situation in that case was not dissimilar
from the one that W8 users may face in the future.

Nope. Never read one in my life.

Chris

 

Chris Whelan wrote:
:: On Tue, 08 Jan 2013 17:56:17 +0000, Tired wrote:
::
:: [...]
::
::: I have *never* had Microsoft refuse activation for replacement of a
::: non original hardware, and I have replaced probably close to two to
::: three hundred dead motherboards.
::
:: Perhaps I should have been clearer. Companies like Tiny supplied
:: copies of XP on CD's that were visually branded to them. If you
:: tried to use one on either the original machine with a different MB,
:: or in any other situation, the install wouldn't even begin.

Oh yes, of course, i was referring to the license, with the product key
rather than the recovery media.


:: (I did say:
:: An XP CD supplied with a Tiny PC would only *install* on another
:: machine if it had the same BIOS for example.)
::
:: I was making the point that the situation in that case was not
:: dissimilar from the one that W8 users may face in the future.
::
::: In fact, can you point me to an EULA that
::: would allow them to do it?
::
:: Nope. Never read one in my life.
::
:: Chris

 

Before Rob Morley slays me down as a numpty, I free admit that the last
OEM installatoin I did was XP. None of my motherboards have failed BTW
Now that the situation has become more complicated with BIOS locking,
will you be able e.g. to install LINUX on a machine which was
originally 'born' with Windows8?