The eeePC and the future of Linux

Discussion in 'Computing' started by Doug Jewell, Jan 21, 2008.

  1. Doug Jewell

    Doug Jewell Guest

    Just thought I'd diverge the thread about eeePC's into one
    about Linux. While Linux has been around for quite a while,
    until now it has pretty much been the domain of the
    experimenter, or the business server.

    It makes an excellent server operating system and has done
    so for some time.

    On the desktop however it is a little more limited - it is
    only in the last couple of years that it's capabilities and
    user interface have really rivalled Windows, and although
    there are Linux equivalents of a lot of software, there are
    still a few common applications that it does not have an
    equivalent for. Despite huge advances, it still isn't quite
    as usable as it should/could be - for example, occasionally
    you have to drop to the command line and use tar and make to
    install software, or vi to edit a config file.

    Now the eeePC has come along, and for the first time, there
    is a computer that appeals to the masses, and is selling
    very well, that is pre-installed with Linux. Could this be
    the catalyst that makes Linux hit the mainstream?

    The eeePC will introduce a fairly large userbase to Linux.
    This is likely to catch the eye of commercial developers who
    don't want to miss their chance at the market, and so could
    spark an increase in the amount of commercial software
    developed for the OS. I'm sure the eeePC would be outselling
    Apple Mac's, so it is very conceivable that the market for
    Linux software will soon outstrip the market for Mac
    software. Will we start to see software traditionally
    written for Win + Mac add Linux to the list, or replace Mac
    with Linux? Microsoft Office for Linux perhaps? Adobe
    Photoshop for Linux?

    Likewise will the hardware vendors start jumping more on
    board, and include Linux drivers standard with their
    equipment rather than just Windows & Mac?

    This comes at a time when Microsoft is struggling to
    convince people of the virtues of Vista. Despite it being
    more secure (and IME more reliable) than XP, many see it as
    being bloat-ware, incompatible, buggy etc and are reluctant
    to make the switch. As linux becomes more well known, as
    being a lean fast OS, and if it's application and hardware
    compatibility base improves, it's quite conceivable that
    more will make the switch.

    I very much doubt Linux will replace Windows as the most
    used OS, but quite conceivable that if it gains market share
    it will trigger Microsoft to lower the price of windows
    and/or modify it so that it stands out as a clear leader.

    Could be interesting times ahead.
     
    Doug Jewell, Jan 21, 2008
    #1
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  2. Doug Jewell

    Rod Speed Guest

    Unlikely anything useful will be added to what's been said about it before.
    And its never likely to manage any better than that, you watch.
    Its got some real downsides there.
    And there are plenty of servers that dont use it.
    A hell of a lot more limited, actually.
    They still dont, particularly on the most vital areas of
    being able to run anything the user would want to run,
    and being able to install that completely effortlessly,
    both with apps and with hardware.
    And plenty like Office that have real
    downsides with the purported equivalent too.

    In spades if you want to keep the user interface style you prefer.
    And that is completely fucked when compared with the effortless
    install thats close to universal with Win now, just because thats
    what the absolute vast bulk use, so any app author with a clue
    ensure that it installs effortlessly on Win.
    Yep, the world's moved on on that dinosaur shit.
    No it doesnt.
    Nothing like as well a real laptops.
    Nope, not a chance, and if Asus doesnt get
    its act into gear, it will be what kills it instead.
    Nope, **** all actually. And plenty will toss it into the
    bin when they realise how they have been shafted too.
    Not a chance, you watch. It wont even do that with ebook readers, you watch.
    Its only a tiny niche market that no one gives a damn about, you watch.
    Not a chance, you watch. Its much too limited to do anything like that.
    Irrelevant, they have always been a tiny niche market that
    does at least have its userbase locked in. The eee pc doesnt.
    Not a chance, you watch.
    Nope, not even with ebook readers, you watch.
    Havent you even noticed what the Mac is doing Linux wise ?
    Only in your pathetic little fantasyland.

    The eee pc is never going to be a significant
    part of the laptop market, you watch.

    And Office is about the last thing you'd want to run on such a limited laptop anyway.
    Not a chance, its much too limited by the lack of a hard drive and decent screen for that.
    Nope, you watch.
    Nope, you watch.
    Pigs arse it is. What matters is what come preinstalled on new
    systems people buy and **** all are even buyable with XP anymore.
    Those are completely irrelevant. What matters
    is what comes with new systems they buy.

    **** all are silly enough to install XP on something the comes with Vista.
    It wont, you watch.
    The absolute vast bulk of the market doesnt give a flying red ****
    about stuff like that. ALL they care about is whether it can effortlessly
    install whatever unusual apps and hardware they choose to add.
    Taint gunna happen either.
    Nope, almost everyone will continue to use what comes with the
    new system they buy and when Asus has enough of a clue to
    have XP available out of the box for the eee pc, those stupid
    enough to buy the eee pc will mostly choose to have XP, you watch.
    Corse it wont.
    Nope, that hasnt happened up till now, and the eee pc aint about to change that.

    What will happen is that we will see some ultra portable laptops at
    the same price as the other full sized laptops, because there is no
    reason why an ultra portable laptop should cost any more than a
    full sized laptop and then the market for the eee pc will be gone
    unless Asus has enough of a clue to fix the design deficiencys
    with the eee pc and include and internal hard drive bay, a real
    laptop card slot, built in bluetooth and XP and Vista out of the box.
    Nope, it will just be another irrelevant fart in the bath, you watch.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 21, 2008
    #2
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  3. Doug Jewell

    atec77 Guest

    we are so far you are nothing but WRONG
    really ?
    and what would those be , provide cite and urls thanks with
    definitive reasoning as to why
    did you make a point ?
    or just making the usual bleating from being out of your depth again ?

    only if your hard of thinking and unimaginative
    Oh you mean that over priced mickysoft cap ?
    that means the use of all the free materials which usually do as well .
    Ok so why use office when all it does it try to make evey document
    propriatory , easily bypassed with a free office suite as you know.
    Very much lessened to the point where it has been months since I had
    to do this , but then some distro's are excelent in this regard.
    so your beloved winblows still has problems then ?
    well thats a surprise :)
    just because thats
    Aha so your not able to use an editor eh wonderboy.. so you have lied
    about your abilities
    Yea it does in spades you wanker
    wtf does that mean apart from have nary a clue ?
    gite and rational displayed reasoning thanks or be know to be full of
    shite until you do supply thise required items
    so far you have been irreversibly wrong , I shan't bother to take you
    incorrect advice you wanker .the rest of woddles shite snipped...
    now are you gonna put up woddles or get abusive and we can tag a lose
    for you ?
     
    atec77, Jan 21, 2008
    #3
  4. [SNIP]
    Sigh. Don't do this. You'll just get the fanboi's (who know sod all
    about Operating Systems, anyway) out and frothing in both directions.

    I've worked with lots of Operating Systems, since before the peecee even
    existed, and even back *then* there were the religious nutters who would
    insist that *their* particular OS was the best possible thing. Of
    course, when you mentioned real-time/execution-speed/load-time/what it
    was that their particular wet-dream did *not* compass, they would either
    disappear, or the frothier would declare that, "thus and so is *not*
    important, no one does that anyway." Idiots.

    So, we will get yet another flame fest, where the signal will quickly
    get swamped by the noise...

    Sigh, just looked at the thread, four (hmm, five, RS is kill-filed) in
    total, no signal apart from the initial post, what a shame.

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)
     
    Gary R. Schmidt, Jan 21, 2008
    #4
  5. Doug Jewell

    Rod Speed Guest

    Nope, the masses wont be buying it, you watch.

    Not a chance.
    I doubt it. Bet that what actually happened was that Asus was
    stupid enough to believe that it would see just as well with Linux
    and pared stuff like that down to keep the price down. Bet thats
    the reason for the lack of bluetooth too, to keep the price down,
    so they didnt have to pay the bluetooth licence fee either.
    Bet its bugger all in practice.
    Its actually Asus's attempt at the very low cost PC for kids, not net savvy users.
    Bet it wont make any difference to that and Asus got told to like it or lump it.
    Have a look at whats installed on new systems some time.

    **** all optionally come with XP.
    Nope, anyone with a clue will just install XP on it.
    Mad, it makes a lot more sense to install one of the better distros like Ubuntu on a real PC to do that.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 22, 2008
    #5
  6. Doug Jewell

    Rod Speed Guest

    How likely that is depends on how soon we see ultra portable
    laptops at the same price as the low end standard sized laptops.

    Bet thats within that time and that lets the air out of the
    eee pc's prospects if Asus doesnt get its act into gear
    and fix the real design deficiencys in the current offering,
    particularly the OS it comes with out of the box.
    We'll see. Bet the reality is that the market for
    the current product is nothing like 4-5M in 2008.
    Nope, thats a trivial part of what it needs to really fly. The absolute vast bulk
    of buyers just see whats in the store when they need to buy something.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 22, 2008
    #6
  7. Doug Jewell

    Rod Speed Guest

    Nope, because its such a tiny market that it isnt worth the trouble.
    Bet it wont. In spades once we see ultra portable laptops for the same price
    as the low end normal sized laptops, the eee pc will just be just another
    steaming turd in the history of pcs, unless they fix the serious design deficiencys.

    And the main serious design deficiency is that it doesnt come with Win out of the box.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 22, 2008
    #7
  8. Doug Jewell

    Doug Jewell Guest

    I've been meaning to do that at some time. Never seem to get
    around to it though.
    Running Ubuntu at the moment, and I don't seem to have any
    superuser options with the editor. But then, I'm more
    comfortable with VI anyway - been using it for years. I'll
    do something in notepad in windows and keep hitting "ESC
    :wq".. damn.
    I got my first exposure to unix in the late '80s, with a Sun
    system. In the early '90s I was working for a place that had
    a proprietary DOS based program. They needed to set up an
    offsite workshop that needed access to the main business
    system. As a small business, a high speed data link was too
    expensive, but Lantastic performed dreadfully over the
    dialup modem (14.4k from memory). I referred back to my Sun
    unix days with dumb terminals working serial port and
    getting good performance. I got hold of a copy of slackware,
    managed to get DOSEMU running, and set up their software to
    run over the dialup link with performance to burn. In the
    mid and late '90s I set up a couple of ISPs and also set up
    a couple of business servers using Linux. After using both
    Linux and Back-Orifice I would find it hard to recommend the
    MS server apps. In about '98 I wrote a full fledged
    accounting software for a business I was involved with, that
    used Postgres on Linux as the database backend. The same
    server handled email, file and print services, and domain
    authentication. Occasionally I still do some work for them
    - last time I looked at it a couple of months ago, it's
    uptime was a little over 2 years. I've never encountered an
    MS server with an uptime remotely close to that.
    I've always had a soft-spot for Linux, and every couple of
    years I download a distro and see how well it runs on the
    desktop. It was never more than curiosity until a few months
    ago when I took the plunge and put Ubuntu on my main work
    notebook.
    I still have dual boot facility, but very rarely use it. I
    do occasionally go into a VM with XP to run access,
    photoshop, and ER Viewer (a viewer for ECW format mapping
    files).
    I've found that OO has less dramas in an MS environment than
    MSOffice 2007. I absolutely despise the new menu/toolbar
    format of Office07 - it's supposed to make you work faster,
    but I find it slows you down trying to find where functions are.
    I couldn't get access working under wine - must have another
    look at it. if it works then that's one less reason to use
    windows. Photoshop runs but won't activate - easier to just
    boot to the VM.
    My not-very-computer-literate boss was using my pc the other
    day, and didn't even realise I wasn't using windows - he
    commented that he liked the customisation I've done to it,
    and asked if I could do it to his because it was so easy.
     
    Doug Jewell, Jan 23, 2008
    #8
  9. Doug Jewell

    Snapper Guest

    Doug Jewell wrote...
    I doubt it. Unless it has apps that can install by running an installation
    program or via "autorun" off a CD or DVD, then I doubt that the masses
    will be attracted to it.

    As for EeePC encouraging a takeup of Linux, it has to not only make high
    initial sales, mainly due to the wow, and new gadget factor, it has to
    sustain that level of takeup.

    When the masses start seeing how difficult it is to reconfigure, to get
    apps that they're familiar with to run on the machine, I'd say that within
    12 months there'll be either heaps of them on Ebay, or they'll sit in
    cupboards everywhere.
    Not "see it", it IS bloatware, buggy, incompatible with lots of stuff,
    needs twenty million gigs of memory just to start up, let alone do
    anything useful on it.

    And does Vista utilise the capabilities of a quad core processor, or even
    a dual core one?

    Anyway, XP SP3 is due out soon and rumors suggest that it has made
    significant performance improvements over SP2 and earlier.
     
    Snapper, Feb 6, 2008
    #9
  10. Doug Jewell

    Snapper Guest

    Gary R. Schmidt wrote...
    Back then, at least for me, it was the System 80 bois v the Commodore
    C64/128/Amiga bois.
    I hoped that I've made a halfway positive contribution. Linux would be a
    great OS if its file system and the way that it creates directories, etc.
    was easier to understand, for starters.

    I "grew up" on DOS and I prefer to view hard disks contents in the tree
    format with all details that Explorer can show, rather than simply looking
    at "My Documents" and "Desktop".

    But when I tried to help a mate fix his Unix box that got hacked many
    years ago, we ended up getting in professional gurus to fix it.
     
    Snapper, Feb 6, 2008
    #10
  11. Doug Jewell

    Snapper Guest

    Don McKenzie wrote...
    Who knows? XP Lite, perhaps?

    Or a reincarnated version of Windows 98SE, maybe...

    Certainly, if they go with XP in its standard form then the Eee PC will
    need both a memory upgrade and an increase in storage capacity. Otherwise
    what will be the point? XP runs like a dog on Celeron based laptops. Just
    check out the low end Acers in Officeworks that are on display.
     
    Snapper, Feb 6, 2008
    #11
  12. Doug Jewell

    Rod Speed Guest

    Pig ignorant lie.
    Pity about the other laptops with celerons that run XP fine.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 6, 2008
    #12
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