Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks

Discussion in 'Storage' started by Boll Weevil, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Nope... We have people designated for every vendor... Few guys are
    technicians for their vendor, like 3 guys for EMC, 2 guys for HP, 2 for IBM,
    3 for Sun, etc...

    Don't know how business is done i USA, but here in smaller countries accross
    Europe, almost everything is done via partners... So, let's say, EMC has got
    and office in Croatia that serves 3 major partners, 1 distributor, 1
    training centre... Croatia is a small country with 4 mil people, but we have
    offices of almost every big vendor here... You'd be surprised, but this
    market is very funny, a lot of enterprise boxes are sold here (EMC
    Symmetrix, IBM DS8000, HP XP, Hitachi USP, IBM System-z, HP SuperDome,
    etc)... Almost everything is done on FC SAN, and nobody even thinks about
    iSCSI or NAS systems... :))) Like I said, totally funny, nobody asks how
    much it costs, all that is needed is that it's working and that it's
    expensive... :)
    Well, we have a stock of spare parts for customers that have SLA's signed
    with us...

    Vendor offices are here mostly for marketing, sales and presales

    U frizideru studenta povraca suncokretov sladoledo izbacuje
    popodne ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, [email protected]
    calypso, Sep 19, 2009
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  2. Here most vendors have people who could do work, but they want to force
    you to use a VAR as well. All most VARs do is try to sell you extra stupid
    services you don't need and then botch the order up somehow. It seems like
    a stupid way to do things to me, and it's especially annoying when they go
    out of business. Try calling Cisco for license enable keys at 4pm on
    Friday after your VAR went out of business or changed names. Even if Cisco
    sends you new hardware, you have to deal with the stupid VAR to get
    license keys again. It's completely stupid and whoever though of that
    model needs to set on fire.

    Most maintenance from any company is handled by third parties that just
    pretend to be from whatever vendor their work order says. It makes some
    sense as less people can handle more work that way, and I'm sure it's
    cheaper for everybody that way.

    Even software companies make you do stupid stuff like find a VAR. Last
    time I ordered Vmware, I had to call Vmware to find a VAR that never
    returned my calls or emails. Then I had to call back to get the name of
    another VAR, then I got a quote for the published price, then I had to
    make a PO for the software and support. I didn't even get a piece of paper
    or anything. It's completely retarded that I could not just type in a CC
    number on and download a license key. I had to fill out all
    sort of paperwork to download a file from a website.
    What do all these machines do- who uses them?
    Here is the US major vendors have parts depots, either at
    logistics/shipping company warehouses or at warehouses at major airports.

    For instance, if I want a new fuser assembly for a HP laserjet, it's
    probably sitting in a box, right now at UPS logistics (something like
    that) in Kentucky . They get the order from HP, print a label and it get
    shipped to me, probably within hours. If I need Netapp parts, I think
    they're sitting in a warehouse by O'Hare international airport and a
    courier or tech can get them to me in just a couple hours, maybe even
    less. It works pretty nicely. I'm sure it's a bit slower if you're in some
    far away rural area though.
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 20, 2009
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  3. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Gees!! That's awful!!
    Well, for VMware we have 2 VARs in Croatia, and me and my colleague
    configure what should be ordered for each project, then register project
    with VMware (for better discounts) and then our purchasing manager orders
    those licences from VARs... We get licences the same or next day...
    Banks, newspaper companies, telecom companies, etc... Here we call it
    enterprise companies, but in US terms this should be true mid-range
    companies (from 500 to 5000 employees)... :)
    That's really cool way of doing things! Here in Croatia, partner has to buy
    spare parts and place it in it's own parts depot... And parts are not
    cheap... :)

    Pekaro izbacuje u rodilistu suncokretov Japanaco mase
    za pet minuta ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, [email protected]
    calypso, Sep 20, 2009
  4. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest



    Cirkularo udise zajeban gledalisteog prdija u sahti
    svakih 15 minuta ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, [email protected]
    calypso, Sep 20, 2009
  5. The use of computers to make shipping owrk faster is a nice thing. In
    these case, like HP and Netapp, they own the parts, nobody has to buy
    anything, they're just sitting in the most covenient place possible in
    case somebody has to pick them up or they need to delivered somewhere.

    Another example of this working out nicely is if you have a server grade
    disk fail in a HP server. They send you a new one, and the return label
    ships the drive back to super huge contact manufacturing company like
    Inventec or whoever for repair or disposal. Sun does the same thing. You
    can order 5 different parts and they will all ship back to different
    places for repair, or may come from different places. I'm pretty sure
    older processor (modules) ship to or from in Canada (probably to/from
    Celestica) where they were made.

    Of course, Netapp wants you to buy "spares kits" for everything. It's just
    extra hardware that has no license. It makes them money, but it's also
    nice to be able to have your own spares if you really feel more
    comfortable to have them onsite, or don't want to have full service
    contracts with them. They'll even sell your system boards- basically any
    part you may ever need that other makers won't even sell you.
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 20, 2009
  6. It's really annoying, since most places won't even return a call unless
    you want prices on some million dollar project, and even then, you have to
    beat them to even get a price without all the "extras" they try to hustle
    on you in removed. Granted, even major makers are annoying as well. Just
    try to call up EMC and get a quote on an exact list of hardware. They
    won't do it.
    Haha. nice.

    How is dell's support on server type stuff these days? I've not had to
    deal with them in quite some time. I mostly just deal with HP and Sun
    these days. HP is pretty good even if you have have the plain 3 year
    warranty on hardware. They do seem to push shipping parts even if you are
    entitled to on-site, but this is fine for most stuff. I don't wan't to
    have to wait around to escort somebody into the datacenter to swap a power
    supply when I can do it myself, when I feel like going there. Sun's
    support if you have a service contract is OK for the most part. Your stuff
    will get fixed, although I can't stand sitting on the phone for 30 minutes
    verifying all my contact info multiple times a day. Hardware support cases
    seem to get processed fastest if you open them online. I've had bronze
    hardware fixed onsite by a tech in hours of submitting a case, which is
    way above and beyond. They seem smart enough to know that shipping parts
    wastes more time than sending a field engineer that's already on service
    calls in the area.
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 20, 2009
  7. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Yeah, I had some problems with spare parts orders from EMC... I want 5
    drives of these type, they want to sell me 7 drives... Small amounts of
    drives, I know, but we are just trying to build up our spare parts stock...
    And we don't need more than we order... :)

    "Divovskis li Bobiu cupu ?" upita mlijeko njusi poglavicao sere.
    "Ne znam ja nista !" rece konobarica trci "Ja samo indijanacu njuku zelenkastm !"
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, [email protected]
    calypso, Sep 20, 2009
  8. Boll Weevil

    Fumi Guest

    Have you tried this site for docs:
    Fumi, Sep 29, 2009
  9. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    Uh.. oh. This is turning into a religious war. Not to brag but let me tell you
    my personal knowledge/experience about storage before I get on my soap box. I
    have been working with HDS and EMC stuff since 1999. I am now a one man storage
    consultant. I also know the celerra and the clariion very well, oh... NetApp( I
    love Netapp!). Furthermore, I know the replication technologies of all of
    them.. SRDF/A, timefinder, Truecopy, Shadowcopy, and the NAS replications. I
    have hands on knowledge of all of them and am actively engaged in these
    technologies, now.

    Now, if I were to put a storage infrastructure into my own data center..... what
    would I buy?? My answer is HDS & NetApp, hands down. From my experience, you
    turn both of those on and you can walk away from them and go to your cubicle to
    spend all your time surfing on the web to find the best place to buy a GI Joe
    for your son's bithday. And, yes HDS is not perfect. Up until the recent
    versions of Tuning manager, their software sucked. Also, their support staff
    and sales people are limited. They don't buy me as many steak dinners as EMC
    sales people.

    As far as replication technologies. EMC and HDS are night and day. The
    complexities of SRDF is insane compared with Truecopy. In Truecopy you edit the
    HORCM files and kick the new disks in the pant and away they go. SRDF, you have
    to issue very complicated RDF commands and then you have to stop the entire
    replication group so you can add the new disks. Don't even try to compare
    Celerra replication with NetApp. In my mind, the Celerra doesn't even deserve
    to be considered considered next to the NetApp.

    My personal theory is that EMC thrives on complexity and make more money with
    support services. Admittedly, I have personally gained from their products
    since I work in an EMC customer site.

    One EMC item I personally do like is ECC. Of all the storage management
    software, ECC is the most muture and most capable. If you wanna throw stones at
    me, I don't mind. One major flaws with other storage management software is
    that they scale poorly. Weather it is 50 or 150 hosts, once they get to their
    numbers they turn into bloated and unuseable virus.

    Boll Weevil, Oct 3, 2009
  10. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Well, I am on the opposite side... :) Working with EMC all the time... BTW.,
    for my customers, SRDF/A is usable only in SRDF/STAR configuration... My
    main customers are financial and telco, and SRDF/S is what they use (if they
    have Symmetrix installed)...

    TimeFinder/Snap(Clone) is not a replication technology (as SRDF is), it's a
    snapshot/clone technology...

    I don't like NetApp because I am working with EMC from the beginning, and I
    like people from EMC...
    I think that HDS doesn't care much about their sales because they have most
    implementations in Asia... And in the rest of the world they use HP and Sun
    to sell USP boxes...
    Don't know much about TrueCopy, but I have made friends with one of the
    engineers that worked for EMC on the SRDF/A development... :) He told me how
    this stuff works, and that was all I needed to know... For implementation,
    we have support engineers who went to trainings and know their job very

    About NetApp - like I said, I don't like their technology... They're mostly
    into NAS storage, and here in this region I can't mention one big customer
    who ever bought NAS... In fact, there is one, and he bought Celerra... And
    that's our only cusomter with NAS technology implemented... Here is
    everything overdimensioned, and we are always talking about FC SAN,
    Symmetrix and CLARiiON CX4 (AX4 is rarely offered)... Croatia is really
    strange country - cheap is considered as low quality, and that's it...
    Well, like we mentioned before, HDS management software is crap... Nobody
    can understand what they ment with it... :/

    U autobusu se satima brezuljkast mackaog mrcvarija.
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, [email protected]
    calypso, Oct 4, 2009
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