Replacing EMC Clariion disks with Best Buy disks

Discussion in 'Storage' started by Boll Weevil, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    I have a Clariion CX400 being used in a lab with 250 GB sata drives and I want
    to pull out the drives out of the drive brackets and replace them with 500 GB or
    750 GB drives I buy from ...say Frys or Best Buy. Is there a special firmware
    on the EMC drives that may prevent me from doing this or any other technical
    reason? TIA.
     
    Boll Weevil, Aug 31, 2009
    #1
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  2. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    So far I know, it won't be possible, since CLARiiON drives are factory
    formatted to 520 bytes per sector...

    Other thing you should check is HDD compatibility list for the FLARE OS
    you're CX400 is running...

    --
    U saboru se za svaku Novu Godinu zagadjen prozorcicu diru.
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    Boll Weevil, Sep 4, 2009
    #3
  4. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    There are some utilities like SCSITool which can format the SCSI-based drive
    to specific sector size, but what happens with EMC firmware information
    then?...

    --
    Sprajta izdrkava pijan limunog gladija za pet minuta ?
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 7, 2009
    #4
  5. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    I think that is the big question at hand. I personal opinion is that there is
    no special sauce in the CX HD as widely publicized other than the 520 bps. EMC
    says they have a special voodoo on the drive and that's why they charge 1000%
    more for what you and I can buy it at Frys or Best Buy. I've searched but no
    body has done it yet. On EMC's support forums all I see is .... "you can't do
    that" and "it's not supported" and other similar bull^%%$. We need to get to
    the bottom of this issue.

    Something I found:

    How to change the block size of a hard drive using Linux and the scu utility

    http://www.doki-doki.net/~lamune/computers/blocksize/index.html
     
    Boll Weevil, Sep 8, 2009
    #5
  6. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Drives have write cache disabled (and that must be that way, no
    exceptions)... 520bps is normal low-level format for those drives (512bytes
    data + 8bytes ECC code)... Special firmware is used also, so you can't put
    normal drive in CLARiiON and expect it to work...

    Well, I've been in EMC's factory in Cork (Ireland), and seen the
    manufacturing process for all of their storage equipmet (Symmetrix,
    CLARiiON, Celerra, Centera, etc)... Let's say that the price for these
    drives is not very much for a customer who wants storage solution that works
    and doesn't die when it's most important...

    And, btw., do you really think that customers buy storage equipment at list
    prices? :DDD They get really good discounts...


    BTW., drives are throughly tested before shipped... 24hr in cold chamber,
    24hr in hot chamber, earthquake simulators, etc... Online all the time... If
    they die during the testing, they die and go to trashcan...

    --
    U Importanne galeriji se navecer ruzan psihologog njusija.
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 8, 2009
    #6
  7. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    Thanx for the offer. I too know of a local reconditioned reseller. They too
    want 350-500 dollars for a 500 gig drive. My cx400 has no maintenance and hence
    a lab array. Several of our production CX4 are about to run out of maintenance
    and will be decomm'd and will take over the duties of the cx400 in about 9
    months. In the mean time, I am just curious as to this particular topic at hand
    and want to investigate to see if it can be done.
     
    Boll Weevil, Sep 9, 2009
    #7
  8. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Excuse me, but CX4 has a default 36 months support, it's a newest EMC's
    storage product, and it's been in production since 2009... So, there is no
    way that it'll go out of maintenance in 9 mth...

    If you're talking about CX400, then it's possible...

    Why don't you do a buy-in with EMC? It's recession time, you could get
    pretty good discounts on buying new CX4 with CX400 buy-in or some other
    financing option from EMC?

    --
    Fatao podmazuje ispod mosta lijep Zidovo podmazuje uvijek ?
    By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 9, 2009
    #8
  9. Boll Weevil

    Boll Weevil Guest

    Made a mistake.. its a CX700.
     
    Boll Weevil, Sep 10, 2009
    #9
  10. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    That's the biggest CX from that age... Hmmmm, it's quite a good machine...
    You could somehow make a trade-in for a CX4-240 or CX4-480 and have a good
    price (because of the crisis and recession)...

    Other option is to go to Hitachi AMS2000 series which uses SAS drives, and
    costs almost half of the same-range EMC CLARiiON... And they will surely
    give you quite a discount if replacing this CX700...

    --
    Na sudoperu se satima nepismen Madjaru karu. By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 12, 2009
    #10
  11. that site is fucking obnoxious.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 17, 2009
    #11
  12. Do you have any first hand reports on the AMS2000?
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 17, 2009
    #12
  13. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    calypso, Sep 17, 2009
    #13
  14. So what's the good and bad of them vs. the ams1000, aside from the change
    in disk trays?
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 17, 2009
    #14
  15. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Absolutely no idea... I'm in EMC team, not in Hitachi... All that I know is
    that Hitachi guys (as well as my EMC team) are considering Hitachi AMS
    series as a real problem when trying to sell EMC... Hitachi's more reliable
    and almost twice cheaper, but there are other problems with Hitachi which
    are more people-related than technology-related... :)

    Anyway, AMS is a great machine that has much better performance than any
    other mid-range storage... Look for SPC-1 benchmarks for performance
    benchmarks...

    --
    Konobaricao zdere u auli PMF-a (matematika) krvav kamionog
    buljija svakih 15 minuta ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 17, 2009
    #15
  16. Ha, ok.
    Mmy opinion is the software for the hitachi stuff all sucks. There doesn't
    seem to be any support website, I have no idea where you get docs, if they
    exist or are even translated into English and the programs themselves are
    just strange and somewhat crippled. I might use three different Hitachi
    programs at once just to add a LUN to a host. It makes no sense, other
    than Hitachi had non-technical people that can't spell SAN write the
    management softare.

    The hardware itself seems good. Every once in a while a drive fails and
    somebody shows up to replace it.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 17, 2009
    #16
  17. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Yes, that's Hitachi's main problem - software and support... EMC is calling
    themselves 'software company', and are claiming that they're 4th biggest
    software company... :)

    Hitachi holds Asian market mostly, and they manufacture enterprise boxes for
    HP and Sun, so they get a market share in EMEA/USA with these brands...
    I believe that software is mainly left to HP and Sun to design and
    support...
    EMC has got the same stuff, when something in the storage array breaks down,
    the storage box calls service center in Cork and sends data about what has
    happened, so the partner can dispatch service crew and replace the
    problematic parts...

    --
    Konobaro siluje zarazen biciklo udise u auli FER-a
    svakih 15 minuta ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 18, 2009
    #17
  18. I know the older (maybe still true) HP arrays were hitachi if you opened
    them up, but the support was still from HP and HP has some of the finest
    docs out there.

    The Hitachi field engineers seem great- they know the stuff inside and out
    as they should, but when it comes to the damn management software, it
    really seems like you're on your own.
    left to HP and Sun to design and > support...

    For rebadged stuff, probably, but if you buy HDS stuff from a HDS reseller
    or whatever that nonsense is called, you get to deal with HDS themselves
    (at least in the US).
    The stuff here "calls home" though FTP. I keep meaning to snoop exactly
    what is being sent to the HDS FTP site when a drive fails.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 18, 2009
    #18
  19. Boll Weevil

    calypso Guest

    Yup... XP boxes are Hitachi USP and USP-V from the inside...
    Talking to me, I've seen management for UPS machine... We were looking at it
    trying to figure out which drives are installed inside... :)))) Took us
    about and hour... ;)
    Here in Croatia, everything is sold through partners... My company is a
    partner for almost everything that counts (EMC, Hitachi, IBM, HP, Sun,
    VMware, Oracle, SAP, Microsoft, etc)... When we sell any stuff, we have to
    stock spare parts and take warranty on us...
    EMC uses modem or remote gateway for this, but in Croatia we use modem
    communications for this...

    --
    Na poljudskom stadionu psihologa gura bodljikav jabukao
    likuje danima ? By runf

    Damir Lukic, calypso@_MAKNIOVO_fly.srk.fer.hr
    http://inovator.blog.hr
    http://calypso-innovations.blogspot.com/
     
    calypso, Sep 18, 2009
    #19
  20. That sounds about right.

    HiCommand's "Device Manager" is one awesome program. It's great to locate
    free space, but the ability to actually allocate it is 100% broken. It
    can't ever add space to a host because it's not able to tell you checked a
    box, ever, at all, on any browser.

    It's like WTF, can somebody fix this program, or has it ever been tested?

    All the error message have misleading IBM like error codes like
    "KAIC10175-E" except there's no book to look up the error or what it
    means. I suspect they're random and nobody knows what they are, even in
    Japan.
    Interesting. So when an IBM customer has problems, you switch out your Sun
    shirt and show up as IBM?

    For HDS here, it seems they have real employees that come out, but simple
    stuff like disk swaps is handled by a third party, like maintanence for
    SUN and HP unless you have some sort of 4 hour support and a really big
    deal problem. I have no problem with this as those techs know their stuff,
    I really don't care what company name is on their paychecks.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Sep 18, 2009
    #20
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