Power supply, Motherboard, or something else?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Jeff, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. Jeff

    Flasherly Guest

    Don't think I've bought from Zalman - noticed, but they were a little
    to edgy on the high prices for my tastes No doubt certainly catchy and
    a reasonably popular brand. Then, I'm invariably buying for the
    highest matrices of standardization (components swap easily). There's
    still a lot of leeway for styles, all kinds of mini/mid designs, and
    such in that. I just like whatever gets a computational end through
    fastest for the least monetary outlay over the longest foreseeable
    time.
     
    Flasherly, Jan 4, 2015
    #21
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  2. Jeff

    Paul Guest

    The specs for that one are on page 3. Note well some of the
    operating conditions.

    http://www.mini-itx.com/store/information/picoPSU-150-XT.pdf

    "For fanless operation de-rate the output of the 3.3 and 5V
    rails by ~35% or ensure PSU surface temperature should not
    exceed 65C, whichever comes first.

    Input current should not exceed 8A. For current higher loads,
    we suggest using a 2x2 mini-FIT JR as an input connector.
    "

    It doesn't regulate the 12V onboard. The adapter feeding it
    handles the +12V. The 8A rating is a "wires and connectors" rating,
    and the warning there is to use good interconnect getting current
    into the Pico and out of the Pico. The other rails regulate onboard
    and generate heat while doing so.

    It generates +3.3V, +5V, +5VSB (standby supply), -12V (for RS232 port).

    It's highly efficient, but it also has no surface area, so the
    convection cooling is not going to be all that good. And 65C, if
    you stick a finger on it, your finger can only stay there for a
    second or two. That's a quick way to guestimate what 65C is.

    *******

    The only time I'd use a Pico, is if space was at a premium.

    The difference with supplies like this, is the power-dissipating
    components usually have a slightly bigger heatsink.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151097

    http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/item/17/151/17-151-097/12v.jpg

    3,3V 20A, 5V 20A, 12V 33A, -12V 0.5A, 5VSB 2.5A
    <---- 100W ---->
    <--------------------- 400W ------------------>

    If you're in-range for a Pico, maybe that can indeed
    run fanless with that tiny loading. If you actually
    wanted to run it at "399W", then I would slap a
    Vantec Stealth cooling fan to the top of the PSU,
    and give it forced air cooling.

    When you use convection cooling, conditions matter a lot.
    If you put that Seasonic *inside* the Zalman case, it
    would likely cook. (It would have thermal protection,
    so would shut off as a warning things aren't going well.)
    If retrofitting to the Zalman, I would mount it on the
    outside. Then look at the heatsinks on the unit, to
    optimize the convection process. The hardest part, is
    protecting the supply from "spilled beverage syndrome".
    One poster here had an issue like that, when a computer
    case with holes in the top, a beverage was spilled and
    it entered the power supply, to the tune of a lot
    of sizzling from the mains electricity. And obviously,
    fitting any kind of "lid" over the Zalman, spoils the
    convection.

    The first product I worked on out of university, it
    was convection cooled. And a lot of effort went into
    designing louvers to shape the available convection airflow,
    to do the best we could with absolutely crappy cooling
    conditions. Lucky for us, the boards that did the
    work in the product used ECL, which loves to run hot.
    (Heat was like a "lubricant" for that old bipolar
    stuff - if you burned yourself touching a ceramic
    chip lid, that was in the right range. It was "warmed
    up" :) ) If only CMOS was so happy-go-lucky.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 4, 2015
    #22
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  3. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    I've only had keyboards affected by "spilled beverage syndrome" - It must be
    contagious, since I've had several so affected. ...never an actual machine,
    however. ...having moved overseas 2 years ago, I did get a hard lesson about
    carefully reading the electrical labels on computer related equipment. After
    reading several labels that specified 110-240 volt 50-60 mHZ input, where
    all had removable power cords permitting me to simply swap out the US cord
    for an Australian one to handle 240 volt, I more quickly looked at my Dell
    printer that said 50-60 mHz so I assumed it would handle 240 volt also,
    especially since the cord was interchangeable. The printer worked fine for
    about 2 seconds with 240 volt input. Afterward a large cloud of white smoke
    and terrible smell emerged. I found out that printer power supplies are not
    interchangeable like in a computer and so that ended the life of my Dell
    printer. If I would only have noticed the label more carefully, I could have
    run it off a voltage converter.

    Thanks for the input about the pico. At this point, I might hold off on
    doing anything with this machine since I have 2 others that are faster and
    also a nice lian li case that's several years old that needs some updated
    components, since it's a bit slow for today's standards. I'll likely move
    the Zalman's components over to the other case, which already has a nice PS.





    "Paul" wrote in message
    The specs for that one are on page 3. Note well some of the
    operating conditions.

    http://www.mini-itx.com/store/information/picoPSU-150-XT.pdf

    "For fanless operation de-rate the output of the 3.3 and 5V
    rails by ~35% or ensure PSU surface temperature should not
    exceed 65C, whichever comes first.

    Input current should not exceed 8A. For current higher loads,
    we suggest using a 2x2 mini-FIT JR as an input connector.
    "

    It doesn't regulate the 12V onboard. The adapter feeding it
    handles the +12V. The 8A rating is a "wires and connectors" rating,
    and the warning there is to use good interconnect getting current
    into the Pico and out of the Pico. The other rails regulate onboard
    and generate heat while doing so.

    It generates +3.3V, +5V, +5VSB (standby supply), -12V (for RS232 port).

    It's highly efficient, but it also has no surface area, so the
    convection cooling is not going to be all that good. And 65C, if
    you stick a finger on it, your finger can only stay there for a
    second or two. That's a quick way to guestimate what 65C is.

    *******

    The only time I'd use a Pico, is if space was at a premium.

    The difference with supplies like this, is the power-dissipating
    components usually have a slightly bigger heatsink.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151097

    http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/item/17/151/17-151-097/12v.jpg

    3,3V 20A, 5V 20A, 12V 33A, -12V 0.5A, 5VSB 2.5A
    <---- 100W ---->
    <--------------------- 400W ------------------>

    If you're in-range for a Pico, maybe that can indeed
    run fanless with that tiny loading. If you actually
    wanted to run it at "399W", then I would slap a
    Vantec Stealth cooling fan to the top of the PSU,
    and give it forced air cooling.

    When you use convection cooling, conditions matter a lot.
    If you put that Seasonic *inside* the Zalman case, it
    would likely cook. (It would have thermal protection,
    so would shut off as a warning things aren't going well.)
    If retrofitting to the Zalman, I would mount it on the
    outside. Then look at the heatsinks on the unit, to
    optimize the convection process. The hardest part, is
    protecting the supply from "spilled beverage syndrome".
    One poster here had an issue like that, when a computer
    case with holes in the top, a beverage was spilled and
    it entered the power supply, to the tune of a lot
    of sizzling from the mains electricity. And obviously,
    fitting any kind of "lid" over the Zalman, spoils the
    convection.

    The first product I worked on out of university, it
    was convection cooled. And a lot of effort went into
    designing louvers to shape the available convection airflow,
    to do the best we could with absolutely crappy cooling
    conditions. Lucky for us, the boards that did the
    work in the product used ECL, which loves to run hot.
    (Heat was like a "lubricant" for that old bipolar
    stuff - if you burned yourself touching a ceramic
    chip lid, that was in the right range. It was "warmed
    up" :) ) If only CMOS was so happy-go-lucky.

    Paul
     
    Jeff, Jan 4, 2015
    #23
  4. Jeff

    Jeff Guest

    I've only had keyboards affected by "spilled beverage syndrome" - It must be
    contagious, since I've had several so affected. ...never an actual machine,
    however. ...having moved overseas 2 years ago, I did get a hard lesson about
    carefully reading the electrical labels on computer related equipment. After
    reading several labels that specified 110-240 volt 50-60 mHZ input, where
    all had removable power cords permitting me to simply swap out the US cord
    for an Australian one to handle 240 volt, I more quickly looked at my Dell
    printer that said 50-60 mHz so I assumed it would handle 240 volt also,
    especially since the cord was interchangeable. The printer worked fine for
    about 2 seconds with 240 volt input. Afterward a large cloud of white smoke
    and terrible smell emerged. I found out that printer power supplies are not
    interchangeable like in a computer and so that ended the life of my Dell
    printer. If I would only have noticed the label more carefully, I could have
    run it off a voltage converter.

    Thanks for the input about the pico. At this point, I might hold off on
    doing anything with this machine since I have 2 others that are faster and
    also a nice lian li case that's several years old that needs some updated
    components, since it's a bit slow for today's standards. I'll likely move
    the Zalman's components over to the other case, which already has a nice PS.





    "Paul" wrote in message
    The specs for that one are on page 3. Note well some of the
    operating conditions.

    http://www.mini-itx.com/store/information/picoPSU-150-XT.pdf

    "For fanless operation de-rate the output of the 3.3 and 5V
    rails by ~35% or ensure PSU surface temperature should not
    exceed 65C, whichever comes first.

    Input current should not exceed 8A. For current higher loads,
    we suggest using a 2x2 mini-FIT JR as an input connector.
    "

    It doesn't regulate the 12V onboard. The adapter feeding it
    handles the +12V. The 8A rating is a "wires and connectors" rating,
    and the warning there is to use good interconnect getting current
    into the Pico and out of the Pico. The other rails regulate onboard
    and generate heat while doing so.

    It generates +3.3V, +5V, +5VSB (standby supply), -12V (for RS232 port).

    It's highly efficient, but it also has no surface area, so the
    convection cooling is not going to be all that good. And 65C, if
    you stick a finger on it, your finger can only stay there for a
    second or two. That's a quick way to guestimate what 65C is.

    *******

    The only time I'd use a Pico, is if space was at a premium.

    The difference with supplies like this, is the power-dissipating
    components usually have a slightly bigger heatsink.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151097

    http://c1.neweggimages.com/BizIntell/item/17/151/17-151-097/12v.jpg

    3,3V 20A, 5V 20A, 12V 33A, -12V 0.5A, 5VSB 2.5A
    <---- 100W ---->
    <--------------------- 400W ------------------>

    If you're in-range for a Pico, maybe that can indeed
    run fanless with that tiny loading. If you actually
    wanted to run it at "399W", then I would slap a
    Vantec Stealth cooling fan to the top of the PSU,
    and give it forced air cooling.

    When you use convection cooling, conditions matter a lot.
    If you put that Seasonic *inside* the Zalman case, it
    would likely cook. (It would have thermal protection,
    so would shut off as a warning things aren't going well.)
    If retrofitting to the Zalman, I would mount it on the
    outside. Then look at the heatsinks on the unit, to
    optimize the convection process. The hardest part, is
    protecting the supply from "spilled beverage syndrome".
    One poster here had an issue like that, when a computer
    case with holes in the top, a beverage was spilled and
    it entered the power supply, to the tune of a lot
    of sizzling from the mains electricity. And obviously,
    fitting any kind of "lid" over the Zalman, spoils the
    convection.

    The first product I worked on out of university, it
    was convection cooled. And a lot of effort went into
    designing louvers to shape the available convection airflow,
    to do the best we could with absolutely crappy cooling
    conditions. Lucky for us, the boards that did the
    work in the product used ECL, which loves to run hot.
    (Heat was like a "lubricant" for that old bipolar
    stuff - if you burned yourself touching a ceramic
    chip lid, that was in the right range. It was "warmed
    up" :) ) If only CMOS was so happy-go-lucky.

    Paul
     
    Jeff, Jan 4, 2015
    #24
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