OT: Ex-Nokia exec Tomi Ahonen explains the Microsoft Nokia mess

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by JF Mezei, Aug 14, 2014.

  1. JF Mezei

    JF Mezei Guest

    Ex-Nokia exec Tomi Ahonen explains the Microsoft Nokia mess

    In short: Microsoft is winding down the non-Windows portion (Asha) of
    Nokia. But what remains has such low market share that Microsoft will
    have a hard time staying in the market.

    Also of interest: Wireless carriers not interested in dealing with
    Microsoft.

    I posted this because some time ago, there were fears that Microsoft
    might become a threath to Apple's iPhone. Appears that all MS did was be
    honourable and bail Nokia shareholders for having ruined the company by
    having it switch to Windows.

    Also: the Android version was rushed by Nokia to retaliate to a low
    offer by Microsoft to buy Nokia. Once the Android phone was leaked, MS
    came back with better offer.


    Although perhaps too early to tell, it looks like Apple will do much
    better without Jobs than Microsoft did without Gates. Not sure the new
    Nadella guy will be able to turn MS around.
     
    JF Mezei, Aug 14, 2014
    #1
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  2. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    I personally think that its too late for anyone to turn MS around now that
    the so much of the world has headed off to tablets and smartphones and
    that is a market in which MS has done very poorly indeed market share wise.

    They still dominate the laptop and desktop market, but that isnt where
    most of the market is anymore, tho there are still plenty with laptops.

    Corse MS is still doing well in the games console market.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 14, 2014
    #2
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  3. JF Mezei

    Your Name Guest

    Gate's only "ability" was in being able to con people into buying his
    shoddy, knock-off products. More and more people are wising up to the
    fact that Microsoft produces garbage which is best avoided.
     
    Your Name, Aug 14, 2014
    #3
  4. JF Mezei

    bknight Guest

    Pretty broad don't you think? There have been some products that
    needed changes, like the browsers, but nothing comes close to the
    Office line of software. Then there's the gaming issue.

    It's easy to snipe at Gates, but he changed the Internet....for the
    better. Yeah, I know. Some think that MS-Dos was stolen. Never
    proved or he wouldn't be one of the wealthiest around. Then you might
    want to look at the man. The Giving Pledge is pretty awesome.
     
    bknight, Aug 14, 2014
    #4
  5. JF Mezei

    JF Mezei Guest


    Gates was a better salesman than Jobs since he was able to peddle vastly
    inferior products to more people. But that only lasts so long. And I
    think Gates knew his snake oil approach was about to run out of fuel and
    he bailed while MS was still succesfull.

    What is interesting about the current incantation of MS's mobile venture
    is that it was perhaps the first time it had a product that was seen as
    being quite OK. (The iPaq from Compaq and HP era was OK too but so short
    lived it failed to get long lasting market share).

    It seems to me that Windows Phone failed because Microsoft did not put a
    massive amount of marketing money/might behind it.

    However, since it never got much market share, I doubt its departure
    from the market will have an impact for Apple's iPhone.

    However, the "surface" tablets might still make a dent.
     
    JF Mezei, Aug 14, 2014
    #5
  6. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    But its far from clear that who they have in management matters
    much with the world moving away from the hardware that MS
    does best at OS wise.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 14, 2014
    #6
  7. JF Mezei

    Kurt Ullman Guest

    Since management is seeing these things and moving toward them in a
    timely manner makes it much clearer that management DOES matter.
     
    Kurt Ullman, Aug 15, 2014
    #7
  8. JF Mezei

    xfile Guest

    Gates was a better salesman than Jobs since he was able to peddle vastly
    Both Jobs and Gates are mortals and have their strengths and weaknesses.
    The core difference between the two is that when Jobs returned to
    Apple for the second time, he knew very well about his “weaknessesâ€
    (hint: management and operation), and thus, he intelligently used what I
    call, Golden Triangle Model, in which Tim Cook (to this date) is
    responsible for management and operation which are critical to execution
    part of visions and strategies including product cost, delivery,
    quality, and so on and so on, and Jonathan Ive is responsible for the
    product design which serves as the guideline for the hardware and
    software engineering teams for implementations and executions.

    Steve Jobs, being a non-engineer (which is his strength) but with a
    strong sense of consumer products, serves as the visionary leader, and
    most importantly, as the ultimate consumer’s representative in the
    company that no other tech company has. Furthermore, the difference
    between Apple’s and Microsoft’s management culture is that Apple
    generally don’t give a rat’s ass about what their techie royalists say
    about how to design their products (because Steve Jobs served as the
    gatekeeper) whilst Microsoft follow almost every recommendation given by
    their old fart outdated techie royalists.

    Apple’s culture gives them ability to attract talents outside the
    generally narrow-minded IT industry as opposite to Microsoft’s for that
    no outside talent would even consider to join the company (or industry,
    in general).
     
    xfile, Aug 15, 2014
    #8
  9. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    No it does not when they have an OS that isnt suitable for those devices
    and it not being viable to just toss it away and start again OS wise.

    Management is stuck with the origins of the operation
    and there is nothing they can do about that.

    They also can't do a damned thing about the fact that
    apple turned the industry on its head with the iphone
    even tho it was very late to that particular market.

    MS did the same thing with the games console market.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 15, 2014
    #9
  10. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    Everyone does.
    That isnt the reason apple did eventually succeed with him driving the bus.
    Its much more complicated than that with the ipod and later iphone
    and ipad without which apple wouldn’t have got where it is today.
    More accurately its his vision about what a product must be that
    is the reason those low end products came to dominate the market.
    That’s not accurate with games consoles.
    That is clearly wrong with games consoles alone.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 15, 2014
    #10
  11. JF Mezei

    xfile Guest

    Apple’s culture gives them ability to attract talents outside the
    When was the last time you checked their console performance?

    Google it and you would find the sales of PS4 and XBOX ONE is about: 3:1

    And MS literally destroyed the only meaningful consumer finished product
    they have had.
     
    xfile, Aug 15, 2014
    #11
  12. JF Mezei

    Your Name Guest

    Pretty much everything Microsoft made was either stolen, copied, or
    bought from someone else ... and then Microsoft usually screwed it up.

    Office has become vastly over-bloated, buggy, and slow, and is falling
    behind the times. It's only still used because many businesses need the
    full compatibility.


    That is due to his wife nagging him, and possibly an "image
    consultant". I doubt Gates would have ever done it himself.
     
    Your Name, Aug 15, 2014
    #12
  13. JF Mezei

    Kurt Ullman Guest

    In that case, Ford is still producing the Model T, Apple the Amiga,
    and any number of other similar. Management has a bunch of say in how
    things go. Actually MS is pretty much a good example since they DID
    manage to work away from the origins of the operation, just not nearly
    quick enough and then too little too late. Both management.
    Why not? With good management THEY could have been Apple since, as you
    noted even Our Boys were late to the party, just not too little and not
    too late.
     
    Kurt Ullman, Aug 15, 2014
    #13
  14. JF Mezei

    Your Name Guest

    Commodore was flushed down the toilet by hopeless management.
     
    Your Name, Aug 15, 2014
    #14
  15. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    All completely irrelevant to what was being discussed
    there, whether MS did attract plenty of outside talent
    when they got involved in games consoles.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 15, 2014
    #15
  16. And still completely dominates that particular market.
     
    whacker james, Aug 15, 2014
    #16
  17. JF Mezei

    Rod Speed Guest

    Nope, they are however still producing CARS.

    If the CAR market had died in the arse and everyone had
    ended up riding bikes instead, there wouldn’t have been
    anything that Ford management could have done about that.
    Apple never produced the Amiga.
    The obvious similar is IBM which doesn’t even have any
    consumer retail products anymore, essentially because
    they were stuck with their origins and there was nothing
    management could do about that once their market
    gave up on their desktops and laptops.
    Like hell they do with major market movements like that.

    You see the same thing with the newspaper industry today.
    Now that hardly anyone bothers with newspapers made
    from dead trees, the publishers of those die like flys.

    Same thing happened with buggy whip management too.

    And with the hot metal printing management too.
    Like hell they did. They kept producing products that are
    used on desktops and laptops and were stuck with the fact
    that they just don’t work very well at all on smartphones.
    Because that sort of thing happens very rarely
    and once someone else has done it, you're fucked.
    But could turn that particular market on its head.

    You can't keep doing that.
    Have fun listing what MS could have done that would have
    been enough more after the iphone had showed up.

    Same thing happened with IBM. Once Win was viable after
    the hardware caught up and provided enough horsepower
    to make the gui viable on the PC, there was nothing that
    IBM management could do to trump that and take over
    from MS.

    It took the iphone to turn that particular market on its head again.
     
    Rod Speed, Aug 15, 2014
    #17
  18. Commodore was the poor last in the market and there was nothing
    management could do about that. That is what is happening with
    MS today in the smartphone and tablet market.
     
    whacker james, Aug 15, 2014
    #18
  19. JF Mezei

    bknight Guest

    Your doubts are coming from someone who doesn't like Gates. Those who
    are more even minded see it differently.
     
    bknight, Aug 15, 2014
    #19
  20. JF Mezei

    bknight Guest

    LOL I didn't see your post before I wrote mine, but I'll add Bullshit
    to this too.
     
    bknight, Aug 15, 2014
    #20
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