new iPad and new iPad mini

Discussion in 'iPad' started by Lewis, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Lewis

    Lewis Guest

    Well, Apple released the 4th generation iPad today, and a 7.0" iPad
    mini. They will sell shedloads, though I suspect they would have
    crippled the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire if they hadn't priced the mini at
    $329. I won't be getting either one myself.
     
    Lewis, Oct 23, 2012
    #1
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  2. Lewis

    zulu Guest

    The *New new iPad*?
    .....or dare we call it the iPad4.....?

    What's er...._new_ about it?

    --
    zulu



    and a 7.0" iPad
     
    zulu, Oct 23, 2012
    #2
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  3. If they sold the iPad mini for less, they would have had to reduce the
    price of the iPod Touch.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 23, 2012
    #3
  4. Lewis

    Your Name Guest

    The "Updated New iPad". ;-)

    It's simply the "iPad", just like the "iMac" and "Mac Mini" that were also
    announced.
     
    Your Name, Oct 23, 2012
    #4
  5. The *New new iPad*?
    ....or dare we call it the iPad4.....?

    What's er...._new_ about it?[/QUOTE]

    They called it the Fourth Generation iPad. The Apple web site calls it
    "iPad with Retina Display", even though the previous model has a retina
    display.

    New is the A6X processor, the new Lightning Connector, faster WiFi, and an
    improved front camera.

    Essentially, it came out four months early, but it's a very small
    improvement over the iPad 3 that holding a March event just for it wouldn't
    have been practical.

    Only one model for all carriers (at least in the US, and they added Sprint,
    which was not available for the iPad before now.

    they kept the micros-SIM card, although the iPad mini uses the nano-SIM
    card size that the iPhone 5 uses.

    I expect that all iPhone, iPad, and iPod announcements will be held in the
    same event starting next year.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 23, 2012
    #5
  6. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    If they sold the iPad mini for less, they would have had to reduce the
    price of the iPod Touch.[/QUOTE]

    no they wouldn't. they're two different products, with two different
    markets.

    someone who wants an ipad is not going to be satisfied with an ipod
    touch and vice versa. they might even get both.

    $329 is *much* higher than i thought it would be and it remains to be
    seen just how well it sells.

    the kindle fire is $159 and the nexus 7 is $199. next week there is
    supposedly going to be a $99 nexus. the ipad mini may be nicer, but is
    it 3x the price nicer??
     
    Guest, Oct 23, 2012
    #6
  7. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    They called it the Fourth Generation iPad. The Apple web site calls it
    "iPad with Retina Display", even though the previous model has a retina
    display.

    New is the A6X processor, the new Lightning Connector, faster WiFi, and an
    improved front camera.

    Essentially, it came out four months early, but it's a very small
    improvement over the iPad 3 that holding a March event just for it wouldn't
    have been practical.[/QUOTE]

    actually, it's more like 6 months late.

    the a6 chip wasn't done last spring so they had to do an a5x to hold it
    over. benchmarks showed the 3rd gen ipad with a5x to be similar in
    speed and even *slower* in some ways than an ipad 2 with an a5.

    now they have a chip capable of handling the number of pixels in a
    retina display. this is what the 3rd gen should have been, but the
    parts weren't done at the time.
    that's a good thing.
    it could be a fall event for ipads now. or it could be they're not on
    yearly intervals. maybe they'll wait 539 days like they did for the
    imacs. maybe there will be a speed bump in the spring. nobody outside
    apple knows.

    don't forget, the competition *isn't* on yearly cycles.
     
    Guest, Oct 23, 2012
    #7
  8. Lewis

    David Empson Guest

    They called it the Fourth Generation iPad. The Apple web site calls it
    "iPad with Retina Display", even though the previous model has a retina
    display.

    New is the A6X processor, the new Lightning Connector, faster WiFi, and an
    improved front camera.[/QUOTE]

    I think the main reasons for Apple revising the iPad again this quickly
    were:

    - Consistent use of the lightning connector across all the "latest"
    models (ignoring the iPod Classic).

    - Performance boost to better compete with whatever Google is going to
    announce shortly (rumoured Nexus 10 inch tablet), and Microsoft's
    Surface.
    Or Apple may upgrade the iPads yet again in March, or when they deem it
    is the right time to do so. Particularly the iPad mini, which might be
    able to move to a retina display then.

    Expect the iPad life cycle in future to be somewhat variable, like it is
    for the Mac.

    I'm still not considering upgrading from my iPad 2, but I'm more tempted
    by the 4th-gen iPad than I was with the 3rd-gen.

    There are still four issues holding me back:

    - I don't know yet whether the LTE support will be compatible with
    future networks in New Zealand. The 4th-gen has a better chance than the
    3rd-gen. (I'm risking it for the iPhone 5, as my 3GS is in greater need
    of an upgrade.)

    - Significantly more time required to charge the battery (somewhat
    improved with the 4th-gen iPad, because it now has a 12W power adapter
    instead of 10W).

    - Heavier.

    - A little thicker.
    There are two cellular models: one for AT&T and Canadian carriers, the
    other for Verizon/Sprint and the rest of the world.

    See http://www.apple.com/ipad/LTE/ or http://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/

    This differs from the iPhone 5, which has three models: AT&T,
    Verizon/Sprint (including overseas LTE support) and rest of the world.

    See http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/
     
    David Empson, Oct 24, 2012
    #8
  9. It's four months (November to March) ahead of the annual schedule, as I
    wrote before. I think that the new feature set is too small, both in
    number and significance, to warrant an event just for itself, so Apple had
    to piggy back it into a broader event. Also, by introducing it now, Apple
    can have one event every Autumn (September or October) for all iOS devices
    and iPods. I doubt that Apple is going to have any major upgrades,
    warranting a single-device event for a few years to come. They may have
    only one event a year for all current hardware, for that matter.

    Your competitive analysis may play a part as well. I recently said that I
    didn't believe that Apple scheduled this event with Google and Microsoft in
    mind, but I'm going to pull a Mitt Romney and change my mind on that.
    I doubt that we'll see any upgrades to any of the products mentioned today
    until next September or October. But we may see something about the Mac
    Pro well before then.
    I expect that if it works for the iPhone 5, it will work for the iPad 4.
    I charge my 3 overnight, and sometimes when I'm home and not using it in
    the daytime. Charge time hasn't been a problem because of that schedule.
    Both are pretty much insignificant. The thickness is only 0.6 mm
    difference, and he weight difference is 51 grams for the WiFi-only model
    and 49 grams for the cellular models.
    Hmm, I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 24, 2012
    #9
  10. no they wouldn't. they're two different products, with two different
    markets.

    someone who wants an ipad is not going to be satisfied with an ipod
    touch and vice versa. they might even get both.[/QUOTE]

    Having two similar products like that at the same price point is a recipe
    for failure. iPod Touch buyers (or should I say potential buyers) will
    claim, and with good reason, that the iPad mini offers so much more for the
    same price, and therefore the iPod Touch is overpriced.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 24, 2012
    #10
  11. Lewis

    Your Name Guest

    If you bought a "new iPad" within the last 30 days, then some Apple Stores
    are apparently allowing purchasers to swap it for the updated model.
    <http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/23...-day-window-to-exchange-ipads-for-new-model/>


    There's actually products in competition with the iPad?!? Since when?!? ;-)

    Even with Apple's annual updates, much of the so-called competition is
    still years behind.
     
    Your Name, Oct 24, 2012
    #11
  12. Lewis

    Your Name Guest

    I wouldn't worry about that. By the time New Zealand gets LTE networks,
    Apple will be on the iPhone 25 and the iPad 20 and using whatever
    technology has already replaced LTE anyway.

    Australia is on Apple's list: http://www.apple.com/ipad/LTE/
     
    Your Name, Oct 24, 2012
    #12
  13. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    Having two similar products like that at the same price point is a recipe
    for failure.[/QUOTE]

    a difference of $30 is not much. one has a bigger display, the other
    has more memory.

    someone who wants something to fit in their pants pocket isn't going to
    consider an ipad mini. someone who wants a larger display isn't going
    to consider an ipod touch.

    other companies have similar products at the same price point. for
    instance, the nikon p7700 and d3100 are both about $500. for most
    situations, either one will take great photos. which one to get depends
    on what features are important.

    the comparison to make is not ipad mini versus ipod touch, but ipad
    mini to other 7" tablets, such as the nexus 7 and kindle fire, both of
    which are much less expensive.
    they're both overpriced.
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2012
    #13
  14. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    about a year ago.
    some is, but not all.
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2012
    #14
  15. D3100: $650.
    P7700: $500
    <http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Cameras/index.page>

    Want to try again?
    The point is that the price of the iPod mini and the price of the iPod
    Touch affect each other. Apple has to have a distinct price differential
    between the two, and the base iPad mini must cost more than the base iPod
    touch.

    If you don't understand that, you don't understand business.
    The number of iPod Touches sold proves that's wrong about it. It's too
    early to tell about the iPad mini.

    Oh, and "I can't afford it," doesn't mean "It's over priced."
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 24, 2012
    #15
  16. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    D3100: $650.
    P7700: $500
    <http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Cameras/index.page>

    Want to try again?[/QUOTE]

    good catch. i searched for the d3100 on google and it said $500, but
    there's a rebate i didn't notice.
    yes they do affect each other, and that's the problem. they can't price
    the ipad mini where it needs to be to compete with other 7" tablets.

    however, the ipod touch and ipad mini are different products with
    different customers, and $30 is hardly a price differential.
    i understand business quite well, thanks.
    the new ipod touch is $299 and has been out for about two weeks. you
    have *no* idea how many have been sold.

    prior to last month's new model, the ipod touch was $199, which is a
    reasonable price for it. before that it was $229, and the original ipod
    touch was $299. i don't remember when it was cut to $229.

    maybe the new ipod touch will also sell well, or maybe people will
    think its price is too high.
    i can afford it, just as i can also afford *two* competing tablets, and
    if rumours are true, that will be *three*.
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2012
    #16
  17. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    true, but i'd say unfortunately. since it's hidden, they can get away
    with ripoff prices.
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2012
    #17
  18. yes they do affect each other, and that's the problem. they can't price
    the ipad mini where it needs to be to compete with other 7" tablets.[/QUOTE]

    I doubt that Apple wants to compete on price with 7" tablets. But it is an
    8" tablet, not a 7" tablet. People are willing to pay a premium for a
    better product.
    It's a 15% price increase over the iPad Touch. If they cost the same, many
    people who would have bought the iPod Touch would buy the iPad mini
    instead. There's a reason that GM charges more for Buicks than for
    Chevrolets.
    And that model is still $199. The new iPod Touch offers more than the $199
    model does, so a higher price is justified.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Oct 24, 2012
    #18
  19. Lewis

    Guest Guest

    the extra 1" is not significant. the form factor is about the same as
    other 7" tablets. it's going to be in the 7" tablet category, just as
    the 10.1" tablets in the same category as the 9.7" ipad.

    the nexus 7 is 198.5 x 120 x 10.45mm.
    the ipad mini is 200 x 134.7 x 7.2mm.

    the ipad mini is 1.5 mm shorter and 14.7mm wider, which is what matters
    when you put it in a pocket or a bag. it's also thinner and the bezel
    is narrower giving it a larger display, both of which are nice, but
    that doesn't affect carrying it. it does for holding and using it,
    however.
    some people will. some won't.

    had apple priced it at $249, the competition would have been dead in
    the water. dead. they'd have owned the tablet market. even at $299 it
    would be somewhat tolerable, even though it's only $30 less. seeing a
    leading 2 and not a 3 has that effect.

    pricing it at $329 leaves the $200-300 market wide open, and there is
    talk of a $99 nexus which is into impulse buy territory.
    no they wouldn't. people who want something that fits in their pocket
    won't even consider an ipad mini.
    not a good comparison.
    the new ipod touch should have *replaced* the old one and at the same
    price point, or maybe back to $229 since it's faster, has a bigger and
    better display, has a better camera, available in colours and has an
    all important wrist strap. that would have left a lot of room for an
    ipad mini at $299 or even $249 or $279.

    $299 for the ipod touch is too high, as numerous reviews have stated,
    including the very review apple cited in the keynote (but they didn't
    quote that part).

    <http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410744,00.asp>
    Apple's beautifully redesigned iPod touch is still the leading
    do-it-all MP3 player, but the new $300 entry-level price might make
    it a tough sell.

    <http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/10/3481678/apple-ipod-touch-review-2012>
    But is there a market for a $299 iPod touch? With no cheaper
    entry-level option, the touch is far from an impulse purchase.
    Selling the last-generation model for $199 isn¹t a good compromise,
    either: it has a terrible camera, a much worse screen, and seriously
    outdated internals. If you¹re looking for a device like the iPod
    touch, buying this year's model is an absolute no-brainer, but I¹d
    bet more people are going to think twice before laying out $300.
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2012
    #19
  20. Lewis

    David Empson Guest

    Even if the iPad mini was priced at $299, it would still cost more than
    the base iPod touch, which costs $199. Admittedly that iPod Touch is a
    two year old model, but the iPad mini is based on the year-and-half old
    design of the iPad 2 (with better cameras), so it is a fair comparison.

    If you compare like to like, then a 32 GB iPod mini is $429, which is
    significantly more than $299 for the nearest equivalent 5th gen iPod
    Touch, and even more than the $249 Apple wants for the 32 GB 4th gen
    iPod Touch.

    I think Apple has deliberately chosen $329 as the starting price for the
    iPod mini so they have room to reduce the price later, or to increase
    the specifications without reducing the price.

    [...]
    Based on what Tim Cook said at the keynote, it could be in the order of
    1.5 million. He didn't do a model breakdown, just said "3 million new
    iPods" had been sold. More than half of iPod sales in recent years have
    been iPod Touches but we don't know how that extends to the 5th gen
    specifically.
    The 2nd generation dropped the entry price from $299 to $229.

    It got complicated around the 3rd generation, since Apple kept selling a
    2nd gen model as the entry level. I don't have a reference handy which
    mentions whether that one was priced at $199 or $229, but I expect it
    was $229, since that was the original price of the 8 GB 4th gen iPod
    Touch.

    If I remember right, the $199 price for the entry level iPod Touch was
    in October 2011 (8 GB 4th generation), when the iPod Touch didn't get a
    proper upgrade, just the addition of a white model.

    This year's entry level model (16 GB 4th gen) was previously priced at
    $299.
     
    David Empson, Oct 24, 2012
    #20
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