meta data collection

Discussion in 'Computing' started by Andy, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. Andy

    Andy Guest

    The AFP had a shit load of information on the Sydney siege muslim and yet he
    managed to wreak havoc in Martin Place.
    And the Federal govt wants to collect meta data on all of us to 'save' us
    from extremists. Yeah right!
    Andy, Dec 21, 2014
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  2. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Essentially because its impossible to predict who will do something
    like that or what Brevik did even if you have that sort of information.
    It is the way that some have been caught
    before they actually did something.
    Rod Speed, Dec 21, 2014
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  3. Andy

    SG1 Guest

    Who would have thought of M$ as a champion of YOUR data????

    Microsoft is currently fighting a federal search warrant demanding that the
    company release emails stored in Ireland.
    Here's why you should be extremely concerned by a U.S. court's actions - and
    what you can do about it.

    I'll start with a brief history of the case.

    In December 2013, having been shown probable cause, Magistrate Judge for the
    Southern District of New York James Francis issued a search warrant ordering
    Microsoft to disclose the contents of a specific email account. (A
    copy of the warrant and related documents discussed below are posted on the
    Electronic Frontier Foundation's site.)

    While preparing to comply with the warrant, Microsoft discovered that only
    the account holder's name, email address, country, and similar information
    were stored in Microsoft's U.S.-based servers. The true subjects of the
    search - the emails - actually sat in a server in Dublin, Ireland (most
    likely because the person who set up the account told Microsoft that he or
    she lived outside the U.S.).

    As required by the warrant, Microsoft disclosed the details of the account
    to federal investigators/attorneys - but it refused to divulge the content
    of the emails because, according to Microsoft, it was outside the
    jurisdiction of U.S. courts.

    Microsoft filed a motion to quash, but on April 25, Judge Francis denied the
    motion (EFF posting).

    Microsoft then appealed (EFF posting), stating in effect that a U.S.
    magistrate judge didn't have authority to issue a search warrant for items
    stored overseas. The introduction to Microsoft's appeal stated:

    "The Magistrate Judge issued a warrant under the Electronic Communications
    Privacy Act (ECPA) that, on its face, purports to authorize the Government
    to search any and all of Microsoft's facilities worldwide. . Congress has
    not authorized the issuance of warrants that reach outside U.S. territory."

    At that point, an array of companies and organizations - the Electronic
    Frontier Foundation, Verizon, AT&T, Apple, Cisco, and Infor, among others -
    filed amicus briefs supporting Microsoft's position. U.S. Attorney Preet
    Bharara weighed in (EFF posting) for the government's side.

    In late July, District Court Judge Loretta Preska turned down Microsoft's
    appeal (Reuters report) and held Microsoft in contempt for refusing to
    comply with the search warrant. In its forceful reply (EFF posting),
    Microsoft stated that private, locked emails were the property of the
    company's customers - not Microsoft. The emails were protected by
    personal-privacy rights. It went on to say:

    "If this Court rules that the U.S. Government may unilaterally reach into
    foreign countries and expose their citizens' personal digital letters, the
    United States and its citizens cannot complain when foreign governments do
    the same to email content stored here."

    In November, Apple, Oracle, IBM, HP, and other organizations with irons in
    the same online-data fire petitioned the European Union for help. Ireland,
    which obviously should have some say in the matter, specifically asked the
    European Commission to file a brief supporting Microsoft's appeal, according
    to a MerrionStreet report. That article quotes Irish European Affairs and
    Data Protection Minister Dara Murphy:

    "By seeking direct access to data held in the E.U. through the U.S. judicial
    system, existing legal mechanisms for mutual assistance between
    jurisdictions may be being effectively bypassed. There are fundamental
    issues at stake here as regards the protection of personal data that is held
    within the European Union."

    On Dec. 8, Microsoft took its appeal up the ladder to the U.S. Second
    Circuit Court, where the case stands for now. It could eventually end up in
    the U.S. Supreme Court.

    What this conflict means to U.S. citizens
    Many Americans might view this case as primarily an issue for Europeans. But
    that's far from the case. In a Dec. 8 blog post, Microsoft General Counsel
    Brad Smith adroitly turned the problem around - what if German authorities
    targeted an American citizen who stored personal information in a U.S.-based
    German bank? His example:

    "Imagine this scenario. Officers of the local Stadtpolizei investigating a
    suspected leak to the press descend on Deutsche Bank headquarters in
    Frankfurt, Germany. They serve a warrant to seize a bundle of private
    letters that a New York Times reporter is storing in a safe deposit box at a
    Deutsche Bank USA branch in Manhattan. The bank complies by ordering the New
    York branch manager to open the reporter's box with a master key, rummage
    through it, and fax the private letters to the Stadtpolizei."

    The Microsoft warrant brings up numerous long-term implications. For
    example, if the Feds prevail, what would stop a judge outside the U.S. from
    compelling Microsoft to hand over the contents of your account?
    Citing the Microsoft case, could officials in, say, Singapore, South Korea,
    Taiwan, or any other country you care to name force Apple into recording
    your iPhone conversations?

    In other words, are you willing to subject yourself to any analogous
    "probable-cause" requirement issued by any country on the planet?

    In my opinion - and the opinion of many others who value privacy - that way
    lies madness. Even given the constitutional complexities of the case - which
    Orin Kerr explains in detail in a Washington Post article - the net result
    is another self-inflicted wound for the U.S.

    What might be the proper process for obtaining evidence from offshore
    servers? Perhaps something similar to the legal remedy for suspected
    criminals who flee the U.S. - an extradition request to the foreign

    A potential sucker punch for American businesses
    One of the hotly debated, potential consequences of the Microsoft warrant is
    its effect on global businesses based in the U.S. For example, a final court
    decision that goes against Microsoft could drive Europeans to use E.U.-based
    email services. European privacy laws are almost universally stricter than
    their U.S. equivalents.

    Based on the Snowden revelations, it seems obvious that the Feds have
    already shown a crass disregard for the rights of all non-American citizens,
    further alienating potential customers for U.S.-based Internet services. A
    judgment against Microsoft would only add fuel to the fire.

    Some non-U.S. companies are already challenging international businesses
    such as Microsoft and Apple. Germany's Deutsche Telekom, for example, is
    expanding its local Web-services offerings. According to a European
    Communications report, the company announced a partnership with Cisco,
    stating, "We will be able to offer simple and cost-effective cloud services
    in compliance with our strict data protection regulations in Germany and

    Whatever legal arguments U.S. courts eventually apply, the decisions most
    likely won't take global data-security trends into consideration.
    Governments all over the world are adding regulations designed to keep local
    data local. A judgment against Microsoft will only accelerate that trend.

    What you can do to call off the data dogs
    As is too often the case lately with broken policies, the right path to
    clarifying stored-data security is not with the courts but with the U.S.
    Congress. Specifically, it should make changes to the Stored Communications
    Act, 18 USC 2703. In his Washington Post article, Orin Kerr puts it this

    "In a perfect world, I think the statute would distinguish between people in
    the U.S. who use U.S. providers that just happen to store their contents on
    servers abroad (those e-mails should be obtainable with a U.S. warrant) and
    people abroad whose providers store e-mails abroad but also have an office
    in the U.S. (those e-mails should be obtained through MLATs [the usual
    process whereby the U.S. government requests assistance from another
    government]). The current statute doesn't draw that line. But I think it

    There's no direct way, short of hoisting a picket sign and marching in front
    of the Second Circuit courthouse, that typical computer users can make our
    opinions known to the judiciary - but there are other avenues to express
    your views.

    First, get the word out to others you know. I'm amazed at how many people
    read the headlines, see that Microsoft is fighting for data privacy, then
    scoff and move on to the next story. This is an important issue - right up
    there with net neutrality - that should be discussed and understood by
    everyone who uses email.

    Second, if you're a U.S. citizen, notify your congresspersons. The Senate
    website has complete instructions for emailing or snailmailing senators; the
    House site has help for finding your congresscritter. Also, the sites for
    specific representatives usually include links for sending email.

    When you write, tell your congressional representatives that you're
    disturbed by the course of Second Circuit case 14-2985-CV. Tell them that
    they should consider amending 18 USC 2703 to clearly delineate the legal
    distinctions of domestic and international email. You can point to Orin
    Kerr's aforementioned article - or to this one.
    SG1, Dec 21, 2014
  4. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Nope, google is.
    Wrong, as always.
    They're right.
    No such animal.
    They're right.
    And they'd be right.
    Fat lot of good that would do them, there is nothing in it.
    Nope, because those are wogs.
    Nope, and its completely trivial to avoid that possibility.
    Even sillier than you usually manage.
    Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.
    And **** all use that.
    Big deal.
    Good luck with that.
    Good luck with that.
    Who cares what you 'think' ?
    And that doesn't do a damned thing either.
    And they will all be ignored too.
    Go and **** yourself.
    Taint gunna happen, stupid.
    Who will flush it where it belongs.
    Who will flush it where it belongs.
    Who will flush it where it belongs.
    Who will flush it where it belongs.
    And they will flush it where it belongs.
    And they will make an obscene gesture in your
    general direction if they even bother to read it at all.
    And we can point at you and laugh too.
    Rod Speed, Dec 21, 2014
  5. The government allowed it to happen in order to quell citizens' suspicions
    over why they want to collect our private data.

    Why was he out on bail even though he was charged with conspiracy to murder?

    Why was his girlfriend out on bail even though she was charged with murder?

    Why weren't either of them deported along time ago?

    And finally... Why, when the first lot of escaped hostages confirmed that he
    was the only nutter in there, didn't a police sniper take him out instead of
    waiting for him to start killing? The poice on the ground were visibly
    frustrated by their command's decree for inaction.
    Bob Milutinovic, Dec 22, 2014
  6. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    Same thoughts as me?
    A shot through the head causes fingers to open and the police had that
    opportunity 15 minutes into game.
    The police command are blustering, saying they were worried about
    "dead man switch" on bomb in back pack
    Can't operate a shot gun AND a dead man switch (has to be kept shut
    by hand) these "command" clowns knew that AND that Haron had no escape
    The police command were just not prepared to make a decision except
    wait for Haron to start shooting hostages.

    If there was a "deadman switch" video showed there wasn't, a shot
    through heart causes muscles to clench (hands shut) still not good but
    obvious Haron wanted stage show and kill as many hostages as possible.

    Experience tells all don't give terrorists "air time" only decisions
    are head or heart shot ASAP

    This siege should of been over in 15 minutes not 16 hours
    Petzl, Dec 22, 2014
  7. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Not necessarily.
    Yes. But were not at all sure how many hostage takers
    there were or whether he had a bomb that might go
    off if they shot the one they could see in the head.
    It's a valid consideration.
    Bullshit. Its perfectly possible to design one that
    doesn't have to be kept shut by hand and allows
    you to use a shotgun as well, particularly with
    something attached to the shotgun.

    And they didn't know how many
    hostage takers were involved either.
    No they didn't.
    That is reasonable when he may not want to shoot hostages at
    all and may have just wanted to say get out of the country etc.
    Its nothing like that black and white on what bit gets shot.
    You don't know that last either and you wouldn't
    use a shotgun if that is what you wanted to do.
    'experience' says nothing of the sort in fact.
    With a significant risk of a lot more than
    just 2 hostages dead if he had had a bomb.
    Rod Speed, Dec 22, 2014
  8. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    I were proved right in all conclusions given
    Also it was noted that a self loading sawn off shotgun was held
    possibly 10 shot (not stated)
    A shot ideally through mouth causes muscles to relax head shot next
    best thing.
    Channel Seven Cameras gave excellent detail of terrorist no deadman
    switch seen.

    Still no explanation why El Mouthy met Man Haron Monis outside Lindt
    cafe minutes before siege?
    “I think it’s pathetic,” said Halal certification authority boss Nadia
    El-Mouelhy, who left the siege site only minutes before the gunman
    stormed the cafe.

    El Mouthy Halal racket is often reported to fund terrorists and
    beinvolved with extortion
    The Christian belief and fact is Moslems are deceived.
    Like Schizophrenics, they need therapy;
    Not confirmation of their delusions.
    The recognized place of worship in a Christian Nation is a Christian Church.
    Mosques are the recognized place of worship only in Moslem countries
    Australia's only legally defined God is our Christian God whose compound redemptive name is Lord Jesus Christ
    Something as simple as denying Moslems a place to pray is all it takes to make them leave voluntarily and peacefully.
    Petzl, Dec 23, 2014
  9. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    This was not the first Moslem terrorist attack?
    Many others just not recorded
    Cronulla another
    They did this on terrorist Moslems attacking residents in Cronulla
    Beach (a Sydney beach)
    For years Moslems were coming to beach not to enjoy but attack
    residents and beach goers NSW Police ignored complaints
    One Australia day celebrations they tried it on and got their asses
    Moslems sent out text messages to rally in another mass attack on
    Cronulla residents
    Our Politicians blamed “racist” Australians
    During the raid a convoy of cars fulled with Moslems from Australia’s
    main Mosque, Lakemba, in Sydney and spent the night smashing cars,
    property, terrorizing attacking residents!
    This convoy sped through red lights from NSW Police who were at
    Lakemba. Not one of these trrorists were charged, the “Police” claim
    they lost all radio communication recording, not one red light camera
    worked,The M5 tunnel with state of art CTV cameras and speed cameras
    weren’t working (yet non-Moslems were booked before during and after
    using these same cameras)?

    The cries of “lone wolf attack” echo through the media as a
    politically correct alternative to “Islamic terrorism”. But the warped
    Muslim mind of, Sheik Man Haron Monis, was there for all to see on his
    facebook page, with more than 14,000 “likes”... well it was there
    before some embarrassed person took it down.

    Isn’t it strange that a lone wolf can have so many other wolves
    following him ready and willing to join in the kill? Not really, not
    if you really want to believe in lone wolves... you know, the ones
    that belong in the feeble minds of the far Left and the apologists for
    Islamic terrorism.

    The truth is that the lone wolf belongs in fairy tales like Three
    Little Pigs, just wait, the rest of the pack are right behind him.
    A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious.
    But it cannot survive treason from within.
    An enemy at the gates is less formidable,for he is known and carries his banner openly.
    But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely,
    his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys,heard
    in the very halls of government itself.
    For the traitor appears not a traitor;
    he speaks in accents familiar to his victims,
    and he wears their face
    and their arguments,he appeals to the baseness
    that lies deep in the hearts of all men.
    He rots the soul of a nation,
    he works secretly and unknown in the night
    to undermine the pillars of the city,
    he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.
    A murderer is less to fear.
    The traitor is the plague.--Marcus Tullius Cicero
    Petzl, Dec 23, 2014
  10. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Bullshit you were on those stupid claims
    about head shots and heart shots.

    And if he had turned out to have had a bomb, the cops
    involved would currently have a problem claiming that
    they had some gutless fuckwit on usenet who told them
    that he absolutely certainly could not have had a bomb
    or anyone else involved either.
    And we'll see what the coroner finds on that.
    Even sillier than you usually manage.
    Doesn't mean that there wasn't one.
    Just because some fuckwit journo claims something...
    By fuckwit journos.
    Rod Speed, Dec 23, 2014
  11. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    Not by sniper experts I had training with and in my life time saw
    three "kills" by snipers all went down as expected
    I have read
    Were given taining in this, saw the gory videos
    Didn't mater if he did the fact is that Man Haron Monis needed killing
    before he startd killing hostages. The Police knew this would be out
    come from begining. To storm the building just endangered more people.
    If there was a bomb it would of gone off regardless
    Fact is taking Man Haron Monis out ASAP would of ended drama in
    minutes not hours and without lives beig taken
    Three different Journo's
    ABC Rod as well as main sraem Journos
    Islamists behave the same way wherever they are allowed to infest.
    They share tips and tricks on how to cheat the infidel. One of these
    tips is that infidels never want to believe the extent and cynicism of
    the islamist hatred toward them and to the west and its people. If the
    infidel is given a choice between fighting for the truth with an
    islamist, or paying him compensation as "piss off" money, they will
    always take the latter. Another is that their religion sanctions any
    illegal activity.
    Petzl, Dec 23, 2014
  12. Andy

    SG1 Guest

    As opposed to claims by that terminal fuckwit Roddles the pisspot...
    SG1, Dec 23, 2014
  13. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    But have absolutely NO way of knowing what happened
    with their hands at the time they were shot.
    Nothing official, just what some fuckwit journo has CLAIMED.
    Just because someone claims something...
    Which are completely useless on that particular
    question of what the hand does at the time the
    individual was shot.
    That is nothing even remotely like what you claimed.
    No one knew if he was going to start killing hostages.
    You don't know that either. Claiming
    something is a fact doesn't make it a fact.
    Who just mindlessly respout each other's shit.
    All just fuckwit journos.
    Rod Speed, Dec 23, 2014
  14. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    Petzl, Dec 23, 2014
  15. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Same to all you and all the rest too.
    Rod Speed, Dec 24, 2014
  16. Andy

    John Smith Guest

    So how many armed offenders have you shot through plate glass during
    your extensive policing career?

    You've been watching too many movies, just like Murdoch's journos.
    John Smith, Dec 30, 2014
  17. If memory serves me right, I shot three targets through plate glass windows
    during my tenure in the army.

    Next question?
    Bob Milutinovic, Dec 30, 2014
  18. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    Nowadays a sniper can shoot one through a brick wall.

    They could of taken Man Haron Monis out within 20 minutes
    The police choose not to. Waited till Man Haron Monis started killing

    Next question why is this dangerous sick sad arse still in Australia?
    Belongs in a Egyptian
    Petzl, Dec 31, 2014
  19. Andy

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yes, because most hostage takers don't kill anyone.
    Nope, they waited until they could hear gunshots in the café.
    Because it takes some time to go thru the legal procedures to kick anyone
    Yet another premature ejaculation of yours.
    Rod Speed, Dec 31, 2014
  20. Andy

    Petzl Guest

    Moslems do
    They did nothing till Sniper said hostage down after Terrost shot
    Female, Tori Johnstone (Cafe Manager) threw himself at Terrorists gun
    allowing his fellow hostages time to flee
    Looks like Norways finally coming around
    While Australia?
    The Christian belief and fact is Moslems are deceived.
    Like Schizophrenics, they need therapy;
    Not confirmation of their delusions.
    The recognized place of worship in a Christian Nation is a Christian Church.
    Mosques are the recognized place of worship only in Moslem countries
    Australia's only legally defined God is our Christian God whose compound redemptive name is Lord Jesus Christ
    Something as simple as denying Moslems a place to pray is all it takes to make them leave voluntarily and peacefully.
    Petzl, Jan 1, 2015
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