Downside of WiFi location aiding

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    The downside of the location aiding is a side effect of not only the
    iPhone listening for WiFi's that it "knows" but broadcasting a lovecall
    to all the WiFi stations it has known. Thus, one can listen for your
    iPhone's lovecalls and then interrogate Apple's database for those
    BSSID's and get a pretty good map of where your phone has been.

    http://arstechnica.com/information-...n-your-smartphones-wi-fi-is-telling-everyone/
    or http://tinyurl.com/nhndmcc

    https://github.com/hubert3/iSniff-GPS

    It would seem sufficient to me that iPhone's should simply _listen_ for
    known WiFi's and not actively call out to them and thus present a cookie
    trail of former locations visited...
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #1
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  2. Alan Browne

    Davoud Guest

    Alan Browne:
    [...]
    Do you think that there's a pretty good chance that someone is doing
    that to you and me? I don't think so. There are so many ways to track a
    person's movements that the more esoteric ones aren't worth worrying
    about. For me, even the easy ones aren't worth my attention, but I'm
    not paranoid. If I were I would not have a car, a driver's license, a
    phone, a house, a credit card, or any other modern accoutrement.
     
    Davoud, Dec 31, 2014
    #2
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  3. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    At so cheap a price to do so, especially in urban areas, they couldn't
    resist.

    Data mining about people is one of the fastest growing information
    sectors in IT. As means become sufficiently cheap, as storage becomes
    ever cheaper, as the cost of learning about people's habits becomes
    cheaper, it all gets greater and greater in scope and depth and cheaper
    in operation and cheaper to sell to ever more companies who want to know
    about you. So, anyone who wants to know about me and my habits can use
    such services. This in turn can affect insurance coverage, employment
    (continued or new), loans, etc.

    Worse, their inferences about you may be plain wrong and cause you
    hardship or damage. You would never know it happened in most cases.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #3
  4. Alan Browne

    Aldo Raine Guest

    Yeah, better stay off those porn sites and away from the "marital aid
    supply" stores,,,,
     
    Aldo Raine, Dec 31, 2014
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Whoosh...
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Davoud Guest

    Alan Browne:
    In urban areas? In NYC, which I visit from time to time, "they" will
    seek me out among the 8-1/2 million residents? Who are "they," anyway.

    What a load of nonsense.
    Are you saying they could cause me hardship or damage and I wouldn't
    know it happened? Does not compute. My credit report wrongly shows that
    my wife and I moved out of our house near Annapolis some years back and
    moved into a cold-water walkup above a disreputable bar in Baltimore. A
    year later we moved back into our house. While I find this to be an
    amusing and telling statement of the idiocy of those who compile credit
    reports, I can't see that it has harmed us in any way.
     
    Davoud, Dec 31, 2014
    #6
  7. Alan Browne

    john james Guest

    Trouble with this line is that there is no way to get all this
    info out of the phone without the user paying to move it.
     
    john james, Dec 31, 2014
    #7
  8. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    You really don't understand data mining. They aren't searching for you
    "now". They will be searching for you in the past.

    I worded that badly. I meant things that would come to harm you (and
    you would know about (theft) or suspect (didn't get that job).

    Other data could affect your insurance rates and you would never know
    about it.

    Does not compute. My credit report wrongly shows that

    Exactly.
    It could harm you if you were in the midst of applying for a mortgage or
    business loan. It could harm you if you were applying for a job.

    A friend of mine, in his post-graduate years, moved many times over the
    course of 10 years. Jobs, starting businesses, moving said businesses
    (when I originally met him), etc. etc. When he finally stabilized in
    the Montreal area and decided to finally establish and top up his RSP's
    and applied for a loan to do so was initially refused on the grounds of
    instability. His 6 figure salary and ownership of 2 houses and being
    founder, part owner and president of a successful and rapidly growing
    engineering firm didn't help a bit. (A different bank came through).

    In that case the banks applied their criteria based on the facts that
    happened to be real. What if you were applying for a loan and were
    refused on grounds that were incorrectly inferred (as you said above)
    .... yet you were never told the substance or source.

    This is what data mining is all about. So better that _you_ present
    your history and not let it be inferred by some company you hardly know
    exists.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #8
  9. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    It's not what's "in the phone" but the location data about the phone
    user. The data is, for all intents and purposes, free, since the phones
    are singing their lovesong all over, revealing what BSSID's they're
    seeking (thereby revealing where they've been before).

    Go read the two articles. Or either one for that matter.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #9
  10. Alan Browne

    john james Guest

    That location data about the phone user is in the phone
    and has to be moved from the phone to the data miner
    before the data miner can use it.
    But that data is still in the wifis they are singing
    too and not visible to the data miners.
    Did that before posting.
     
    john james, Dec 31, 2014
    #10
  11. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    It comes from the iPhone pinging away looking for specific WiFi
    stations. It's not data as in "the data plan".
    Try understanding them this time.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #11
  12. Alan Browne

    JF Mezei Guest

    Think again. Part of the Snowden revelations involves CSEC (canada's
    equivelent to NSA) doing such studies at airports to track where people
    had been. This was a "study" to see how this software could be used to
    track people.

    One of the reasons Apple decided to begin randomizing the MAC address
    during the initial stage where it sends its list of known BSSIDS to see
    if anyone is present.

    BTW, this is truly silly. It should only send out the list of BBSIDS
    that the phone knows are not public.
     
    JF Mezei, Dec 31, 2014
    #12
  13. Alan Browne

    john james Guest

    Yes, but those pings have to get back to the
    data miner to be used by the data miner.
    Never said it was.
    I understood them fine.

    Yes, it's trivial to see all that pinging going on.

    But for that to be any use to a data miner, those
    pings have to get to the data miner and there is
    no way for that to happen. I know that none of
    the routers I have ever setup send all that stuff
    anywhere because if they did, it would be visible
    in the data you pay for moving.
     
    john james, Dec 31, 2014
    #13
  14. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    A data miner who wants to setup a "toll" to collect such would spend a
    trivial amount of money to do so, to move the data and to keep it.
     
    Alan Browne, Dec 31, 2014
    #14
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