CPU Install question

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by Bill, Jan 24, 2015.

  1. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I'm doing a new build and installing a new Corsair H-105 cooler over a
    new Intel CPU. I have 2 questions.

    1. I assume it's okay if the "water tubes" come around over on the RAM
    side. When I was was thinking about it the first time, I was thinking I
    didn't want to block the output fan in the back of the case (so that
    was the way I went). They will be at least an inch over my Corsair
    Vengence RAM, but I don't want pre-mature failure (due to the heat
    drying out the tubes?)...

    2. The Corsair cooler has thermal paste on it, of course. Will cleaning
    the CPU with 99% alcohol be proper "prepping" before I attach the cooler?

    Thank you for your kind assistance!

    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 24, 2015
    #1
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  2. Bill

    Paul Guest

    But the water tubes have cooling fluid moving through them. How
    high a surface temperature could the tubes manage, if cooling water
    is running inside the tube ? Only if you had an open wood fire,
    with intense infrared pouring out, could you punish the outer
    surface of the tubes.

    The plasticizer used for the tubing does not last forever.
    But I don't think a little 35C case air is going to make that
    much difference, when the tube has the thermal mass of water behind it.

    *******

    On the CPU surface properties, you want to clean off any
    amount of paste which is hard and uneven, and causes the
    new cooler to "wobble" when placed on the surface. Some
    Intel phase-change materials are candidates for removal.

    If you need more trivia about paste products, they
    have instructions here you can examine.

    http://www.arcticsilver.com/instructions.htm

    The biggest liability on a certain range of years
    of Intel processors, is the surface shape of the
    processor top. It's convex. This was done for
    mechanical stress reasons. The processors where the
    lid is soldered to the CPU die with low-temperature
    solder, there are extreme stresses involved when the
    solder cools. The curved surface of the processor,
    has something to do with controlling the stress
    (pulling forces) when the solder cools. Now, those
    CPUs, the heatsink sits on the center of the CPU,
    whereas out on the edge, the thermal paste has to
    fill the air gap. It means the edge of the CPU
    doesn't conduct heat quite as well (as a thick layer
    of paste is a thermal insulator).

    By comparison, lamenting over the cleanliness of the
    "grooves" in the metal surface, is a secondary effect.
    If your paste product was a good one, and it has
    "tinted" the metal surface, you could just leave that,
    as thermally conductive material now fills the grooves.
    So I would not necessarily let my "cleaning fetish"
    take over in that case.

    The only material I thoroughly remove, is the Intel
    phase change stuff. It's hard as a rock. And the solvent
    isn't going to make much of a dent on it. If a proper
    paste product was used, it's not going to get in the
    way of doing a good job.

    The danger of using a solvent, is some of the solvent
    could get left in the groove. And take the place of
    some paste. Even a cleaning rag can leave enough
    debris in the grooves, to negate all the work you
    spent "cleaning". So the surface conditions
    are kinda tricky, if you worry about such things.
    When the metal was new and paste-free, that's your
    one good chance for an "impurity free tinting" process.

    Your priorities:

    1) Remove obvious surface imperfections (mountains of
    Intel rock-hard phase change material, causing wobbly
    fit).
    2) As thin a layer of paste as possible, consistent with
    displacing air and forming a conduction path. Do not
    build an Oreo cookie (the way we did with one of my
    engineering projects at work :) )
    3) Work on your "groove" and your "tinting". This is
    well down the list. If the original paste was good,
    just wipe it clean with wiping action.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 25, 2015
    #2
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  3. Bill

    Flasherly Guest

    The tubes are about "wicking" action - a portion of evaporative fluid
    within that, heated, expands wicks upwards to the fins and
    subsequently generates a closed circular cooling effect.

    You're not going to 'wear out its pipes,' not at least in your
    lifetime;- Perhaps by the year 2500, in case you want to leave a note
    to any descendant prodigy.

    Yeah, clean it with alcohol, that's what I also use. Unless I'm lazy
    and dry wipe it with a paper towel. Both the CPU and the cooler. And
    don't use those thermal pastes/tapes. I never ever do. They're
    poorly regarded by reasonably available products from NewEgg or Amazon
    in highend thermal pastes. Arctic Silver, for instance. Got a
    "baggie" full of them, tubes accumulated over the years.

    Might be OK for a pinch, most operators wouldn't know the difference.
    Dropping money into a for real heatsink, for an assembler/builder, and
    actively monitoring CPU temps, though, the heat mounting
    paste/compound included with a lot of heatsinks, they're a joke.

    A better CPU cooler, these days anyway, they're totally overkill and
    awesome about adequate cooling. Shame, really, not to seat one
    affixed most righteously. Think of it with impunity as the crowning
    touch of your masterful competence.
     
    Flasherly, Jan 25, 2015
    #3
  4. Bill

    Bill Guest


    You and Paul give great answers! I'm glad to learn that the tubes are so
    stable!

    I couldn't wait. I read somewhere that Corsair wouldn't put bad thermal
    paste on their coolers.
    I installed the CPU, wiped it with one end of a Q-tip with 99% alcohol,
    dried it with the other end, and put the H-105 on.
    I like the way the cooler went on compared to the Intel coolers. The
    latter have generally aggravated me in the past, trying to get
    all 4 of the plastic tips to come through the other side the way they
    are supposed to. I didn't even think of taking a good look
    at bottom of the new cooler (duh), wish I had. I had previously
    noticed, through the plastic bad, that it had compound on it.

    I don't claim "masterful competence" (ha, ha, ha!). I spent 15 minutes
    figuring out the right way to attach the 3-pin pump connector to the
    4-pin CPU_FAN header.
    I lined it up with a plastic tab behind 3 of the pins (duh!)--I didn't
    do that the first time. It goes on just fine in two different ways! ; )
    I hope everything works when I turn it on in a day or two! : )
    At least now I'm not "afraid" of installing the cooler. If I have to
    redo it, now I'm not skeered!
    Alot of worrying always seems to go into the 45 seconds it takes to
    secure the CPU into its slot!
    --Funny, when you're actually doing it, you don't worry too much. It
    is well-rehearsed. I treat the CPU "delicately".

    I have a Corsair 650D case. Tomorrow, I'll pull all the wires through
    to the back of the case and push them through where they go.

    I'll report back after "post time".

    Thank you, and cheers!
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 25, 2015
    #4
  5. Bill

    Flasherly Guest

    Right-o. The way or thing about if you're using their mounting paste,
    and I could be wrong in that the included compound is 'the good
    stuff,' is if in need of a remount at some future point. You won't
    obviously have it and you'll have the possibility of some better
    aftermarket compounds - thick heavy-metal saturated paste compounds.
    Run a torture-type benchmark, or, from your regular programs the most
    demanding on the processor. Actively monitor the CPU's temps
    (SPEEDFAN or similar/suitable to pull that info from the CPUs
    output/thermal diode). Then try find a reported poll/forum of users
    and what they're reporting for cooling with your CPU. Doesn't matter
    as much what they're using, just skim their temps for comparison to
    your conditions. (Wide latitudes for 35/45/65/95/125watt processors
    all using heat variously.) If you're not satisfied, though, feel you
    should have better - drop a few bob on a heavier known brand, one
    well-received. Might be yours is a light silicon based heatsink
    compound - or not, might be the benefits of another compound would be
    effectively insignificant.

    The residual of it all, say, between a CPU running at 57-65C and one
    that runs ambient or close - to my thinking - does matter in the long
    run. Rated/spec'd much high, of course, might not be a dead CPU
    although I believe anomalies can occur, especially, with overclocking
    that contribute to a mess, it is, when an OS reaches general
    instability (figuring and knowing if its hard/software induced).
     
    Flasherly, Jan 25, 2015
    #5
  6. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Thank you! I printed out your (entire) post to remind me of the details.

    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 25, 2015
    #6
  7. Bill

    Flasherly Guest

    Seat of the pants. Built a lot of 'em, overclocked some, others would
    run with a wooden matchbox-sized heatsinks;- guess I like just like my
    CPUs on the cooler side these days, even with today's superior case
    and CPU heatsink designs. (10 years life expectancy out of a computer
    isn't exactly unheard of, least not for me.) Hope your new build
    serves you well!
     
    Flasherly, Jan 25, 2015
    #7
  8. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I didn't think of it that way, but anyone who can get all the wires and
    components in the case is at least a little competent, I guess (pat,
    pat, pat, lol). I think I'd be finished if I didn't have a case with
    a "back" to thread wires through. I learned I liked my 650d case a
    little more when I realized I was able to remove half of the 3.5" drive
    holders, to improve airflow from the front. There can now be high
    winds from the front air-intake through the case out the back and top
    (through the radiator), except I'll probably be tempted to try to keep
    the fan speed low (I can adjust the fan speed from a 4-fan controller on
    the top of the case--new feature to me). I still have the H-105 cooler
    fans on CPU_OPT though.

    I put the SDD closer to the bottom of the case, in front of the 200 mm
    front intake fan, figuring it's cooler the lower you go (since heat
    rises). I put the CD/DVD drive about in the middle, just above the level
    of the fan, so it would get a draft from all the air coming into the case.

    I think you and Paul taught me pretty well here! I posted a little over
    6 months ago, and didn't even like the idea of water cpu cooling (after
    I realized it was a "closed system" I liked it better). You got me
    thinking about temperatures more than usual. My last build was 5 years
    ago. Pretty soon the old system can keep working for another family
    member (I don't skimp on things like power supplies).

    I think I have one more session before the first post. You wouldn't
    want to pay me by the hour...

    Cheers,
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 26, 2015
    #8
  9. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Paul and Flasherly,

    The first post was *completely* uneventful!!! Very quiet... not even an
    error code. Then after taking a short break, I re-inserted the 24 pin
    connector, even flexed the MB a little, and heard a click, and after
    that things went much better.

    I selected the "optimized defaults". Windows7 loaded in 15 or 20
    minutes. I'm running the 4790K CPU at 4.0 GHz (no XMP features yet), and
    the cores temps are 29-31 C at idle.
    On one of the first BIOS screens, there's a place where they list the
    CPU temp as 22C (I'm not sure where that number comes from).

    I don't have much software installed yet so, besides the install, I
    haven't given the system a good test yet. I haven't even got it on the
    Internet. The "Windows Experience" numbers are mostly 7.9. 7.8 for
    Graphics, since I have a very modest, but quiet, GPU (GX750TI, Strix).
    Far superior to the GPU (HD-4400?) in the CPU however. The first time I
    ran Windows Experience, I realized my video card wasn't being used.
    Another story, sort of funny--when I was finished "assembling my
    computer" and was admiring my handiwork, I realized I had forgotten to
    put the video card in. Fortunately I had left room.

    So far, the new system is hooked up to an older monitor and keyboard and
    I'm toting my one USB mouse from one computer to another. I have to do
    all of the stuff you do when you change computers, then I'll be good to
    go! By the way, I usually use the SANDRA program for performance
    comparisons, but I don't get too caught up in making comparisons. I just
    like to verify I'm getting the performance I'm supposed to be getting.

    Cheers, and thank you for your support!
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 27, 2015
    #9
  10. Bill

    Paul Guest

    Let's hope that click was the latch on the
    24 pin connector, mating and closing with the
    motherboard portion.

    With the different colors in this example, you
    can see the latch on the black piece, hanging
    down where the matching section on the beige
    motherboard connector should be. To release it,
    you need to press the top of the lever, so the
    bottom portion moves away from the surface of
    the other connector body. Then you can pull up
    on the connector and harness. They use latches,
    because without a latch, thermal expansion would
    gradually cause the connector to be ejected from
    its mate.

    http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/main24pin.jpg

    It's especially difficult some times, to get the
    ATX 2x2 or 2x4 to release, as there is no finger
    room in that area.

    It's almost as difficult as actuating the heel release
    on the video card, so the video card can come out of
    its slot. On some motherboards, that heel thing is a
    pure bitch (examine it carefully while the motherboard
    is out of the computer case, because it's pretty hard
    to observe it later). It can be either a spring or a
    slide piece. The slide piece type, isn't nearly as bad
    to work with.

    You can give your cooling a workout with something
    like Prime95 torture test option (mersenne.org/freesoft).
    For single threaded benches, some people like SuperPI.
    Selecting enough digits so the whole calculation does not
    fit in the processor cache. The 32 million digit calc
    is used on some of the high end processors, because
    they have such a large cache to work with. In the past
    when I did builds, I'd take ratios of SuperPI times
    in seconds, to see what my money bought me. But this
    time I didn't bother, because clock rates just aren't
    climbing all that much any more. What I got on my
    new build, was a lot more cores. So that programs
    like 7ZIP (parallel execution) go faster. I've seen
    as much as a 7X speedup on 7ZIP (which, unlike some
    compressors, doesn't "speed up" that much when it
    hits easy stuff).

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 27, 2015
    #10
  11. Bill

    Bill Guest

    It was. I was listening for the click the first time, but didn't press
    the issue.
    I'm trying to un-train myself from my (bad) habit of over-tightening
    things.
    I will try the program you suggested for testing.

    By the way, I did notice that my GPU has a hook on it. I guess that means
    you slide it towards the screws a bit before you try to pull it out?

    Cheers,
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 27, 2015
    #11
  12. Bill

    Paul Guest

    My advice on the video card retainer, is figure it
    out while you can still see it :)

    There's nothing worse than not being able to see in there,
    and barely being able to get a finger on it, then trying to
    figure out what you're supposed to do. Even after you've examined
    the mechanism in the light, you might still have trouble. The
    slide ones should be less of a challenge.

    You can see the heel in a picture of a video card here.

    http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14-131-338-Z11?$S640$

    It's that thing on the lower right. On the spring loaded
    ones, a round "button" fits over top of the heel, and
    prevents the heel end from lifting. You pull back on the spring,
    moving the button out of the way, so the heel can rise up.

    In the slider type retainer, sliding the slide mechanism towards
    the faceplate, is the "locked" position. Sliding the slider mechanism
    away from the faceplate, removes the slide from over top
    of the heel, so the heel can rise up.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 28, 2015
    #12
  13. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I think I had a computer that had one of those. A "tiny white lever"
    was really tough to see I'm lucky I didn't break anything! ; )
    My new one has a hook, just like in your picture. I will strive to
    keep it in mind if I ever need to remove it!

    Tonight I'm "screwing around" transferring files (some mp3's I purchased
    from Amazon.com just don't want to go), and
    transferring my email files (I can make it work...it's just not working
    as nice as it should--yet).


    Thanks,
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 28, 2015
    #13
  14. Bill

    Paul Guest

    Authors web site...

    http://www.almico.com/speedfan450.exe

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 28, 2015
    #14
  15. Bill

    Bill Guest

    I recollect (I think) someone mentioning a program called SPEEDFAN for
    measuring temperatures.
    Where is a good place to download there (I'm "dreadfully afraid" of
    getting something I don't want as part of a download)?

    Thank you,
    Bill
     
    Bill, Jan 28, 2015
    #15
  16. Bill

    Larc Guest

    | I recollect (I think) someone mentioning a program called SPEEDFAN for
    | measuring temperatures.
    | Where is a good place to download there (I'm "dreadfully afraid" of
    | getting something I don't want as part of a download)?

    This is the home site for Speedfan:

    http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php

    I have the CPU temp showing in my system tray.

    Larc
     
    Larc, Jan 28, 2015
    #16
  17. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Thank you very much.
    One more question please.

    The fans on the H105 are "PWM". Do you think it is normal for 1 fan of
    the 2 radiator fans on the H-105 to run while the other sits and maybe
    just "jiggles" a little (at low speeds). That is what drew my attention
    to it in the first place, is that I could hear some very, very light
    sounds (of the 2nd fan sort of trying).
    They both run together at slightly higher speeds/heat. The two 3-pin
    fans are co-joined by a simple wire "coupler" and are attached to the
    4-pin CPU_OPT header. I can rationalize why it does what it does, and
    I can rationalize why it shouldn't be doing what it's doing! Please
    tell me the right answer, if you know!

    Cheers,
    Bill

    By the way, gigabyte included some fan and temperature software with
    their MB. Its doesn't work at advertised (where do the hours go?), but
    it can be made to work.
     
    Bill, Jan 29, 2015
    #17
  18. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Thanks again, I was almost "hood-winked" by an impostor--who at least
    forewarned me he was going to put his own browser on my computer.
     
    Bill, Jan 29, 2015
    #18
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