Apple sued for shrinking storage space on 16GB devices thanks toiOS 8

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Whitney Ryan, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Whitney Ryan

    Whitney Ryan Guest

    Apple sued for shrinking storage space on 16GB devices thanks to iOS 8
    http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/31/7474947/apple-sued-over-16gb-iphone-ipad-storage

    "Apple’s misrepresentations and omissions are deceptive and misleading
    because they omit material facts that an average consumer would consider
    in deciding whether to purchase its products," the complaint says.
    "Rather ironically, Apple touts iOS 8 as 'The biggest iOS release ever.'
     
    Whitney Ryan, Jan 1, 2015
    #1
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  2. Yet another frivolous lawsuit foisted by a bunch of nutcases looking to
    make a fast buck.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jan 1, 2015
    #2
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  3. Whitney Ryan

    Aldo Raine Guest

    Yeah, I glanced at an article about that too. I think there was even a
    mental anguish dimension to it as well. No doubt a little PTSD because
    there wasn't enough room for all their cat pictures...
     
    Aldo Raine, Jan 1, 2015
    #3
  4. Whitney Ryan

    Guest Guest

    as usual, it's not just apple.

    the sony xperia has the least amount of free space:
    <https://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/iphone-capacity.png>
     
    Guest, Jan 1, 2015
    #4
  5. Whitney Ryan

    JF Mezei Guest

    Not quite so frivolous. Misleading advertising is a serious thing.

    Consider some cameras and music players whose firmware is stored
    separate from the data storage, so the advertised capacity is fully
    avaialble to store music/photos. But for smartphones, it is not because
    the OS shares the same storage medium.

    You advertize a device has having a certain amount of capacity for your
    music, pictures, videos, and then find out that you can NEVER have the
    advertized capacity because the base system (a required component) takes
    a big chunk of it.

    This may result in Apple adding text in the advertising advising
    potential customers that the OS requires x gigs out of the advertized
    capacity, or advertising models as 14 gigs instead of 16gigs. (or
    whatever amount is left after the current OS is installed).

    Once you agree to a software update, the original advertising promises
    no longer apply so it is not a problem when available storage goes below
    originally advertised capacity.
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 1, 2015
    #5
  6. Whitney Ryan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Completely frivolous.
    There is no misleading advertising involved, it does have 16G.
    It has the 16G Apple claims it has.
    Apple doesn’t do that. They say it has 16GB and it does.
    The problem with that is that the amount
    of free storage varys with the OS installed.
    There is no original advertising promise on the amount of free space.

    ALL Apple says it that has 16GB and that is completely accurate, it does.
    Apple doesn’t advertise CAPACITY, just what is present storage wise.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 1, 2015
    #6
  7. Whitney Ryan

    JF Mezei Guest

    How the advertising is done makes a big difference.

    For instance:

    "16GB to store loads of music, photos and videos"

    is quite different from

    "it has a 16GB disk".
    At the time a phone is released, Apple knows how much space is taken up
    by the OS that is current for that phone.
    Depends on the advertising. If it makes people believe it has 16GB to
    store photos, videos, music, then it provides impression it has 16GB
    free when you buy it.

    I don't have any advertising in mind where Apple pitches it that way, so
    I am not passing judgement here, just looking at ways where this lawsuit
    may not be frivolous if the plaintiffs do have such advertising from Apple.

    There are many consumer devices where they advertise you can store
    approx X hours of music. I believe the iPods are/were advertised like
    that. If, a device can never store that much due to the OS taking up a
    sizeable chunk, then this becomes misleading advertising.
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 1, 2015
    #7
  8. Whitney Ryan

    Lewis Guest

     
    Lewis, Jan 1, 2015
    #8
  9. There wasn't any misleading advertising.
    The firmware in the iPhone and iPad don't take up any of the 16Gb. The
    OS is not firmware.
    Apple didn't advertise that; it advertises a certain total capacity.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jan 2, 2015
    #9
  10. Apple doesn't say that.
    It says the equivalent of that, but because there's no disk, it doesn't
    say that exactly.
    It doesn't make people believe that.
    It certainly appears that's exactly what you're doing.
    But they don't have any such advertising from Apple.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jan 2, 2015
    #10
  11. Whitney Ryan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Never seen Apple say that.
    Or that either with the devices that have 16GB.
    But don’t know how that will change with later versions.
    Never seen Apple do that.
    Only to the stupid/pig ignorant.
    I don’t believe that Apple has advertised it like that.
    I know that Apple doesn’t do that.
    But Apple doesn’t do that. Apple just says Capacity.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 2, 2015
    #11
  12. Whitney Ryan

    Your Name Guest

    You can't advertise "X hours of music" or "X number of photos" because
    the manufacturer has no way of knowing what compression, quality, etc.
    your files will use. Advertising will usually say "up to", "approx",
    and / or say in the small print that it depends on such settings.

    No storage meda has ever been sold that can store it's full "capacity".
    floppy disks, hard drives, CDs, DVDs, SD cards, USB keyring drives,
    etc. are all sold as have "X MB" or GB, but that's without the
    formatting required, the size of which is dependant on the OS you
    choose to use. Then there's the added issue of people changing their
    minds what a "GB" actually is - either 1024MB or 1000MB.


    This is simply another case of some greedy-ass American mis-using the
    legal system to trying and grub money out of a big company. It's almost
    as moronically stupid as the idiots who sued Apple because the iPod
    volume could be turned up too high. :-\

    Anyone who actually believes 100% of any advertising jargon and
    hyperbole should be put in a padded cell for their own safety.
     
    Your Name, Jan 2, 2015
    #12
  13. Whitney Ryan

    JF Mezei Guest

    http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone-5s/specs/


    Capacity(1) 16GB 32GB


    and at very bottom of page:
    (1) 1GB = 1 billion bytes; actual formatted capacity less.


    It makes no mention that a certain number of gigabytes are used by the
    operating system (required, not optional). Only mentions the formatted
    capacity is less than actual capacity.

    So even the fine print fails to mention that the OS takes up space on
    the storage. As many personal devices have the operating system in
    firmware/ROM, it is an important distinction to make whether the
    software resides in teh advserised capacity or on separate capacity.
    Note that many Android phones have separate microSD cards for storage
    and those do not contain the OS.

    It would in fact be to Apple's advantage to have the advertising law
    require disclaimer for OS storage requirements or advertise on;y actual
    available capacity after OS is installed since it would force the
    Android ecosystem to admit to all the carrier-loaded bloat which reduces
    actual capacity far more than what Apple has.


    For the iPod Shuffle:
    http://www.apple.com/ca/ipod-shuffle/
    Hundreds of songs to go.

    Never leave a favourite tune behind. Along with up to 15 hours of
    battery life,1 iPod shuffle gives you 2GB of storage capacity, good for
    hundreds of songs.2 That’s plenty of room for the essential songs of
    your workout or commute. And for multiple playlists, Genius Mixes,
    podcasts and audiobooks, too.

    the 1 and 2 fine print refer to battery life and the 1GB , actual
    formatted capacity less. But an example of advertising based on ability
    to store hundreds of songs.


    So the same web site does not differentiate between devices that have
    the OS stored on the advertsised capacity vs ROM (separate capacity).
    (Or does the Shuffle also have its OS stored in the advertised 2GB ?)
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 2, 2015
    #13
  14. Whitney Ryan

    Your Name Guest

    Every Mac and Windows PC every sold uses some of the hard drive / SSD
    space for the operating system. iOS devices are no different. It's
    simply a greedy moron trying to con money.
     
    Your Name, Jan 2, 2015
    #14
  15. Whitney Ryan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Unsurprising given the VERY sparse style those pages are done in.

    Who wants pages like that with acres of stupid arse covering fine print ?
    That stuff is available for anyone who wants to check that.
    Makes not sense to have reams of advertising law that
    is a complete pain in the arse to have to comply with.

    Some fool will demand that they use specific words and crap like that.
    Because some have no idea what GBs translate into number of songs wise.
    The manual spells that stuff out. That’s the right place for it.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 2, 2015
    #15
  16. Whitney Ryan

    Ant Guest

    Kitty porn. [grin] :p
    --
    :) New Yr.
    /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
    / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
    | |o o| |
    \ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
    ( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
    Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
     
    Ant, Jan 2, 2015
    #16
  17. Whitney Ryan

    JF Mezei Guest

    Consumer protection laws exist because of companies that used misleading
    advertising.

    Fine print exists because companies wish to continue to use misleading
    advertising while complying with those laws that seek to prevent it.

    As there are consumer devices that have the system software stored
    separately, and some which are stored in the advertised capacity, it
    makes sense to require a vendor to specify if the system software takes
    up some of the advertised capacity (and how much).

    Consider this: I have 13gb of songs on an iPhone 4 which fits fine in
    the 16GB model. I need to know if I can upgrage to a 5s or a 6 with also
    16GB of storage or whether my 13GB won't fit because the system software
    on a 5 or 6 takes more space than on a 4.

    Just because a lawsuit was structured in a frivolous way does not mean
    that the principles it tries to address are not worth addressing.

    It might be simpler to take this up with government authorities such as
    Office de Protection du Consommateur in Québec or a similar commission
    in Europe who can then force all smartphone makers to adjust their
    advertising. (no lawsuit involved and no penalties, just making the
    rules clear and applied the same to all).
     
    JF Mezei, Jan 2, 2015
    #17
  18. Whitney Ryan

    Rod Speed Guest

    Apple isn't doing anything like that with the pages being discussed.
    There are no laws that cover what is being discussed.
    It makes absolutely no sense whatever.

    Consumers should check those basics if they care about it.
    You are free to check what free space
    there is on a 5S or 6 before you buy one.
    They aren't worth addressing anyway, because anyone who
    wants to know what free space there is on a device they are
    planning to buy is free to check that before they buy it.

    Ditto when you are say considering updating from 7.x.x to 8.x.x etc.
    It makes no sense at all for stupid bureaucrats to be doing anything of the
    sort.

    That would result in completely silly multipage templates
    where the only thing a manufacturer is allowed to do is change
    the actual numbers in the whole multipage utter obscenity and
    a completely different on in every single jurisdiction. No thanks.
     
    Rod Speed, Jan 2, 2015
    #18
  19. But (to paraphrase GEICO), everyone knows that smart phones, tablets,
    and computers do not have the OS in ROM.

    Besides, this frivolous law suit is not about the OS not being in ROM,
    but is about the fact that iOS 8 takes up more space than iOS 7 does.

    iPods (except the iPod Touch) are a different category; their OSs are
    not upgradable.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jan 2, 2015
    #19
  20. Whitney Ryan

    Guest Guest

    Guest, Jan 2, 2015
    #20
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