whats the difference between a BackUp and an Image

Discussion in 'Backup Software' started by Michael Kicak, Sep 29, 2007.

  1. At present I back up only my spreadsheets, music, pixs and images that I
    scan each month onto a CD... I don't backup the hard drive at all, though I
    have created a Restore point.
    I really don't know what the difference is between creating an IMAGE vs a
    BACKUP.
    Second question... is there any way to back up the software on my hard
    drive... some of the programs are old and I like using them, but have lost
    the Original software CDs
    Thanks in advance for any help you can provide me...
    MJK
     
    Michael Kicak, Sep 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. Michael Kicak

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:21:43 -0400, "Michael Kicak"
    <> wrote:

    >At present I back up only my spreadsheets, music, pixs and images that I
    >scan each month onto a CD... I don't backup the hard drive at all, though I
    >have created a Restore point.
    >I really don't know what the difference is between creating an IMAGE vs a
    >BACKUP.


    An image is a type of backup.
    An imaging program takes a kind of 'snapshot' of what is on your
    PC's harddisk.
    And allows you to put that image back, if required.

    Other types of backup copy each and every file.
    Or just the files that have changed since the previous backup.
    Or several variations on this schema :)

    >Second question... is there any way to back up the software on my hard
    >drive... some of the programs are old and I like using them, but have lost
    >the Original software CDs


    In that case, you will need an Image type backup.

    Most programs require some settings in the registry. If you just
    create a backup of the files involved, the program will likely
    not run as it lacks the required registry settings.
    And just a copy of a registry won't do you much good, as such a
    copy is only valid for exactly the installation it came from :)

    Creating an image makes sure you have both the required
    programfiles and the required registry-content to run.

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Sep 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. I no longer see any use for file based backup programs.
    They are very, very, slow.
    Do not work for multiboot systems.

    Can anyone come up with a justification for using a file based backup, other
    than for reading old file based backup archives?
     
    Howard Kaikow, Sep 30, 2007
    #3
  4. Michael Kicak

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:48:36 -0400, "Howard Kaikow"
    <> wrote:

    >I no longer see any use for file based backup programs.
    >They are very, very, slow.
    >Do not work for multiboot systems.
    >
    >Can anyone come up with a justification for using a file based backup, other
    >than for reading old file based backup archives?


    - Version control :)
    - Easy single file retreival
    - Fast and efficient use of bandwidth (either on the local backup
    medium or on the network)
    - Pure necessity, sometimes (Say: a 3 TB array where only some
    600 MB gets changed on an average day. Gee, am I glad there is
    CDR :)
    - Audit purposes
    - Security flagging (E.g. a file that is not supposed to change,
    ever, turns up in a differential backup set)

    Need I go on ?

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Sep 30, 2007
    #4
  5. Michael Kicak

    Wandering Guest

    I have recently had to restore two separate systems.

    A PC which went up in smoke with a Win98SE operating system with a new Vista
    PC, and a MAC where I had to wipe the disk, and replace the operating system
    from scratch. In neither case did the image offer any value at all. I was
    able to rescue virtually all the user data by having a file back up for each
    system on an external flash drive. Once they were up and running again, I
    loaded the files, and we were off and on our way.

    Image backups are best for bullet proofing the system you have against
    problem software installs, or malware. Both are part of our regimen.




    "Howard Kaikow" <> wrote in message
    news:fdo2cn$ou2$...
    >I no longer see any use for file based backup programs.
    > They are very, very, slow.
    > Do not work for multiboot systems.
    >
    > Can anyone come up with a justification for using a file based backup,
    > other
    > than for reading old file based backup archives?
    >
    >
     
    Wandering, Sep 30, 2007
    #5
  6. "meerkat" <> wrote in message
    news:qoMLi.19004$...
    > A file is a collection of letters, numbers and special characters: it
    > may be a program, a database, a dissertation, a reading list, a simple
    > letter etc.
    >
    > From that description, you can see there are many reasons for
    > backing up `files`.


    The question was image-based vs. file-based backup.
     
    Howard Kaikow, Oct 1, 2007
    #6
  7. "Bob Willard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > An image backup won't help if you have to replace the PC with a new PC

    which
    > is different from the old one: you will then have a new OS, and you will
    > want to restore your old data files *without* overwriting the OS.
    >
    > Yes, there are cases where image backups work with PC replacement, but for
    > the typical single-partition PC, you will be screwed unless your backup

    app
    > knows how to extract individual files from a backup image.


    All "decent" image-based backups allow retrival of files, not just an image,
    No reason to use file-based for this purpose.
     
    Howard Kaikow, Oct 1, 2007
    #7
  8. "Gerard Bok" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > - Version control :)

    image based programs also have this.
    > - Easy single file retreival

    image based programs also have this.
    > - Fast and efficient use of bandwidth (either on the local backup
    > medium or on the network)

    image based programs are far faster than file-based.
    For network backup, you can still use an image based program, but it
    operates in file based mode.
    > - Pure necessity, sometimes (Say: a 3 TB array where only some
    > 600 MB gets changed on an average day. Gee, am I glad there is
    > CDR :)

    The better image based backups have incremental and differential backup
    capabilitues.
    > - Audit purposes

    Please clarify.
    > - Security flagging (E.g. a file that is not supposed to change,
    > ever, turns up in a differential backup set)

    If a file has not changed it would not be included in a proper
    incremental/differential backup.
     
    Howard Kaikow, Oct 1, 2007
    #8
  9. "Wandering" <> wrote in message
    news:fdohsr$96p$...
    > I have recently had to restore two separate systems.
    >
    > A PC which went up in smoke with a Win98SE operating system with a new

    Vista
    > PC, and a MAC where I had to wipe the disk, and replace the operating

    system
    > from scratch. In neither case did the image offer any value at all. I was
    > able to rescue virtually all the user data by having a file back up for

    each
    > system on an external flash drive. Once they were up and running again, I
    > loaded the files, and we were off and on our way.
    >
    > Image backups are best for bullet proofing the system you have against
    > problem software installs, or malware. Both are part of our regimen.


    The decent image based backups allow for file retrieval
     
    Howard Kaikow, Oct 1, 2007
    #9
  10. Michael Kicak

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Mon, 1 Oct 2007 09:01:57 -0400, "Howard Kaikow"
    <> wrote:

    >"Gerard Bok" <> wrote in message
    >news:...


    >> - Version control :)

    >image based programs also have this.


    No, they don't. They may offer file based features.
    An image is a dump of the entire volume, regardless of its
    contents. Basically even without regard to whether or not the
    sector is in use.

    Most imaging products peek at the OS's usage table and only
    backup portions of the disk that are flagged 'in use'.
    Or even skip sectors that belong to the swap area, the hibernate
    area, the waste bin, etc.
    Which disqualifies their output as a proper images :)

    >> - Easy single file retreival

    >image based programs also have this.


    The emphasis here was on 'easy' :)

    >> - Fast and efficient use of bandwidth (either on the local backup
    >> medium or on the network)

    >image based programs are far faster than file-based.


    Please clarify. How could they be 'far faster' ?

    >For network backup, you can still use an image based program, but it
    >operates in file based mode.


    Well, it's clear we disagree about what 'imaging' means :)

    The fact that some imaging products implement non-imaging
    functions (like version control, differential, incremental) imho
    actually illustrates the indispensability of 'classic file based
    backup' :)

    >> - Audit purposes

    >Please clarify.


    Create an image. Seal it. You have evidence of a situation,
    frosen in time.

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Oct 1, 2007
    #10
  11. "Gerard Bok" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >> - Version control :)

    > >image based programs also have this.

    >
    > No, they don't. They may offer file based features.
    > An image is a dump of the entire volume, regardless of its
    > contents. Basically even without regard to whether or not the
    > sector is in use.


    What do you mean by version control?
    If u mean the ability to recover particulatr versions of particular files,
    then the better inmage programs can do this.

    > Most imaging products peek at the OS's usage table and only
    > backup portions of the disk that are flagged 'in use'.


    Yes, but so do file based programs.

    > Or even skip sectors that belong to the swap area, the hibernate
    > area, the waste bin, etc.
    > Which disqualifies their output as a proper images :)


    There is no reason to backup the swap files, and the better programs do
    backup the recycle bin.
    I do not use hib sp I do not know hat they do.

    In any case, there are image backup programs that do backup ALL sectors as
    an option.

    > >> - Easy single file retreival

    > >image based programs also have this.

    >
    > The emphasis here was on 'easy' :)


    File retrieval is no more difficult with an image based backup.

    > >> - Fast and efficient use of bandwidth (either on the local backup
    > >> medium or on the network)

    > >image based programs are far faster than file-based.

    >
    > Please clarify. How could they be 'far faster' ?


    Opening a file is slow. Image based programs do not Open files,
    Image based programs are much faster.

    > The fact that some imaging products implement non-imaging
    > functions (like version control, differential, incremental) imho
    > actually illustrates the indispensability of 'classic file based
    > backup' :)


    Not so.

    Retrieval of files is similar for both types of backup
    But image backups are much faster in creating the archive.

    > >> - Audit purposes

    > >Please clarify.

    >
    > Create an image. Seal it. You have evidence of a situation,
    > frosen in time.


    ALL backups, be they image or file based, are backups at a point in time.

    Try an image bqckup program, you will see the difference.
     
    Howard Kaikow, Oct 2, 2007
    #11
  12. Michael Kicak

    Gerard Bok Guest

    On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:00:33 -0500, "BBC_GRIM_REAPER"
    <> wrote:

    >"Howard Kaikow" <> wrote in message
    >news:fdo2cn$ou2$...
    >
    >>
    >> Can anyone come up with a justification for using a file based backup,
    >> other
    >> than for reading old file based backup archives?
    >>


    There is no such thing as a golden egg in Backup country.

    You need to set your target(s), apply a proper strategy and
    select the appropriate software for the job at hand.

    Today, the vast majority of backups running in practical
    operations are just file based.
    They hide under obscure names as 'file replication service',
    'shadow copy', 'remote file audit', mirror, etc.
    But basically: they are backups :)

    --
    Kind regards,
    Gerard Bok
     
    Gerard Bok, Oct 4, 2007
    #12
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