iTunes 10 without bloatware

Discussion in 'iPad' started by sean_q, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. sean_q

    sean_q Guest

    sean_q, Mar 6, 2012
    #1
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  2. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <8hr5r.2151$>, sean_q <>
    wrote:

    > Here's an interesting article I found that (for me) makes the iPad
    > a more attractive product. In fact iTunes is one of the main
    > reasons I haven't bought an iPad so far.


    then you'll be happy to know that itunes is not required.

    > The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
    >
    > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-wi
    > thout-bloatware/2390


    if you actually read the article, you'd see that only two components
    can be removed if you want to use itunes with an ipad, one of which can
    be disabled by the user (software update) so there's no need to skip it
    and the other (bonjour) is very useful for configuring network devices
    so you shouldn't skip it. many third party products, such as printers,
    include bonjour and configuring them is substantially easier than
    without it. not installing bonjour is just stupid.
     
    nospam, Mar 6, 2012
    #2
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  3. sean_q

    Davoud Guest

    sean_q:
    >
    > > Here's an interesting article I found that (for me) makes the iPad
    > > a more attractive product. In fact iTunes is one of the main
    > > reasons I haven't bought an iPad so far.


    nospam:
    > then you'll be happy to know that itunes is not required.
    >
    > > The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
    > >
    > >
    > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-
    > > wi
    > > thout-bloatware/2390


    What an anal-retentive paranoid sean_q must be. What's he got, a 20MB
    HD? In the scheme of things who gives a rats bony little kneecaps what
    iTunes installs? It does its job exactly as specified and it doesn't
    crash. It must have to do with being a benighted Windows drone, which
    tends to turn users into anal-retentive paranoids who fear software
    installations because their low expectations from their machines are so
    often met.

    OTOH, I have Windows installed on three of my nine Macs and iTunes
    works just fine. "bloatware" and all. Yep, it's Windows paranoia
    alright.

    --
    I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
    you will say in your entire life.

    usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
     
    Davoud, Mar 6, 2012
    #3
  4. In article <8hr5r.2151$>, sean_q <>
    wrote:

    > Here's an interesting article I found that (for me) makes the iPad a
    > more attractive product. In fact iTunes is one of the main reasons I
    > haven't bought an iPad so far.


    well, now you don't need iTunes at all to use the iPad (or iPhone, or iPod
    touch).

    --
    Tea Party Patriots is to Patriotism as
    People's Democratic Republic is to Democracy.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 6, 2012
    #4
  5. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <jj5nkr$sj0$>, Todd Allcock
    <> wrote:

    > "Doesn't crash" is about the only good thing I can say about Itunes on
    > Windows.


    it doesn't crash on macs either.

    > The UI is confusing (e.g. determining what is and isn't clickable) to
    > Windows users since iTunes doesn't follow Windows design principles
    > (understandably) and the program becomes unresponsive often, (which makes
    > the "what's clickable" issue even more annoying, since what is clickable
    > doesn't seem to respond when nothing happens!)


    the clickable issue is valid and it becomes unresponsive on macs too.
    the removal of colour was another stupidity that came with itunes 10
    (or was it 9?).

    > The issue I notice most, is trying to select or deselect movies to sync
    > when the iDevice is syncing. Scrolling through the list of movies in the
    > device sync menu stalls for up to 10 seconds at a time. You can click on
    > the scroll bar to your heart's content and the UI just hangs, then
    > several seconds later scrolls several pages all at once, catching up to
    > whatever mouse input was cached.


    it does that with music too. click on a different song and it will
    sometimes beachball. apparently nobody at apple has a large music
    library, or ever clicks on a different song while another is playing.

    > Presumably iTunes becomes unresponsive because it's too busy
    > syncing/communicating with the connected device to pay much attention to
    > user input. It'd be nice if you could alter the device's contents when it
    > wasn't connected, to avoid the sluggishness, but you can't access any
    > device specific menus or settings unless the device is connected- a catch
    > 22.


    it would be very nice if you could 'pre-sync' it and then just plug it
    in later.

    > When nothing is connected, iTunes hums along ok, so people using it
    > primarily as a media player/manager probably won't notice, as perhaps
    > those who use smart playlists and don't need to interact with the media
    > selections while a device is connected.I suspect few Windows users use
    > iTunes for much other than iDevice management, however, so we probably
    > see iTunes at its worst a higher percentage of the time.


    no, it still has problems when no device is connected, such as stealing
    focus or scrolling the window contents whenever it feels like it.
     
    nospam, Mar 6, 2012
    #5
  6. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <jj5qpb$ho6$>, Todd Allcock
    <> wrote:

    > I don't really notice with music because I "presync" music by having a
    > master playlist that contains the music I want on a particular device,
    > and only sync that one playlist with the device. This allows me to edit
    > the devices' music contents when they're disconnected by editing the
    > playlist itself, and those changes are synced at the next connection. I
    > wish I could do that with video as well.


    music you can pre-sync by updating the playlists that are on the
    device. other stuff you can't, such as apps.

    > Of course, that has a downside as well, since using a single master
    > playlist disallows other playlists from being added to it. (You can't
    > "nest" playlists.) iTunes has a "playlist folders" construct that will
    > hold multiple playlists, but individual songs and albums can't be added
    > to a playlist folder- only other playlists can.


    what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?
     
    nospam, Mar 6, 2012
    #6
  7. sean_q

    Erilar Guest

    nospam <> wrote:

    >
    > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?


    It appears in the playlist on the iPad/iPod after the next sync. I do it
    all the time. I have specific playlists for both. Some are on both. Even
    my iPod doesn't have all of them.


    --
    Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
     
    Erilar, Mar 6, 2012
    #7
  8. sean_q

    Erilar Guest

    Just happened to wonder whether the problem isn't iTunes per se but just
    iTunes for either platform? It's another "upgrade" I haven't installed.
    ..


    --
    Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
     
    Erilar, Mar 6, 2012
    #8
  9. sean_q

    Erilar Guest

    Todd Allcock <> wrote:

    >
    > Presumably iTunes becomes unresponsive because it's too busy
    > syncing/communicating with the connected device to pay much attention to
    > user input. It'd be nice if you could alter the device's contents when it
    > wasn't connected, to avoid the sluggishness, but you can't access any
    > device specific menus or settings unless the device is connected- a catch
    > 22.
    >

    ..?? You can stop a sync, at least of iPad. Then you can do all kinds of
    things with it connected and tell it to resync with the changes. Or is the
    Windows version so inferior that you can't do what I do with my Mac? I can
    turn off books, videos, music albums, whether or not it's connected. I can
    change photo album contents(most of mine are not photo albums, but music
    collections, travel stuff, maps, trip albums, and other stuff) and then
    resync, with or without disconnecting in the interim.


    --
    Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
     
    Erilar, Mar 6, 2012
    #9
  10. sean_q

    Erilar Guest

    Todd Allcock <> wrote:

    >
    > Presumably iTunes becomes unresponsive because it's too busy
    > syncing/communicating with the connected device to pay much attention to
    > user input. It'd be nice if you could alter the device's contents when it
    > wasn't connected, to avoid the sluggishness, but you can't access any
    > device specific menus or settings unless the device is connected- a catch
    > 22.
    >

    I'm not a Windoze person, so I only know iTunes from the Mac side, but I
    don't understand the complaints in this paragraph. You can stop a sync if
    you want to make changes or just leave it connected after it's done. You
    can then access anything on the connected device(at least on iPad and iPod)
    and change whatever you please, then tell it to sync with your changes. You
    can rearrange apps. You can upload documents to Pages(or download them to
    places on your computer) if you're using it. You can also turn off things
    like books and videos when it's not connected.


    --
    Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
     
    Erilar, Mar 6, 2012
    #10
  11. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <jj5uk3$aht$>, Erilar
    <> wrote:

    > > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?

    >
    > It appears in the playlist on the iPad/iPod after the next sync. I do it
    > all the time. I have specific playlists for both. Some are on both. Even
    > my iPod doesn't have all of them.


    yes, for individual playlists. he wants to add songs to playlist
    folders, not playlists, which is what doesn't make sense to me.
     
    nospam, Mar 6, 2012
    #11
  12. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <jj5uk5$aht$>, Erilar
    <> wrote:

    > > Presumably iTunes becomes unresponsive because it's too busy
    > > syncing/communicating with the connected device to pay much attention to
    > > user input. It'd be nice if you could alter the device's contents when it
    > > wasn't connected, to avoid the sluggishness, but you can't access any
    > > device specific menus or settings unless the device is connected- a catch
    > > 22.
    > >

    > .?? You can stop a sync, at least of iPad. Then you can do all kinds of
    > things with it connected and tell it to resync with the changes. Or is the
    > Windows version so inferior that you can't do what I do with my Mac? I can
    > turn off books, videos, music albums, whether or not it's connected. I can
    > change photo album contents(most of mine are not photo albums, but music
    > collections, travel stuff, maps, trip albums, and other stuff) and then
    > resync, with or without disconnecting in the interim.


    you can stop a sync, but it takes a while for itunes to actually notice
    and stop.
     
    nospam, Mar 6, 2012
    #12
  13. On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:49:36 -0800, sean_q <> wrote:

    >Here's an interesting article I found that (for me) makes the iPad
    >a more attractive product. In fact iTunes is one of the main
    >reasons I haven't bought an iPad so far.
    >
    >The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
    >
    >http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/2390
    >
    >SQ



    Why should "bloat" matter anymore on our desktop computer?

    --
    "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
    than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
    to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

    - James Madison
     
    Howard Brazee, Mar 6, 2012
    #13
  14. sean_q

    nospam Guest

    In article <jj6qps$s6p$>, Todd Allcock
    <> wrote:

    > I use one single playlist as a "proxy" for each disconnected device, and
    > sync only that single playlist (e.g. "iPhone 3GS", "the Kids' iPod") with
    > each corresponding device. Those playlists might have several GB of music.
    > But, because you can't put a playlist inside another playlist, I can't
    > put playlists on a device, at least not without abandoning my workaround
    > (one giant playlist per device).


    you can nest playlists, which doesn't really do anything other than
    organize them.

    what i do is have a master playlist of stuff i want ('iphone music')
    and then have a bunch of assorted smart playlists that refer to that
    master playlist (not the main library), such as rock/pop, classical,
    most often played, least often played, etc.

    all of those playlists are synced. if the playlists are related, i nest
    them, such as rock/pop at the top level and then inside it, 5*, 4*+,
    etc. since they're smart playlists, they auto-update any time i make a
    change to the master list. if i want to add or delete music, i just
    modify the master playlist, which is just a normal playlist, and
    everything else auto-updates.

    it's basically manual management, but without the drawbacks. i.e., it
    actually works.

    > Maybe there's an easier way to manage multiple devices for multiple users
    > with dissimilar tastes, but I haven't found it. My wife doesn't want my
    > daughters' Selena Gomez albums on her iPhone, the girls would rather not
    > see Joni Mitchell or Cat Stevens on their iPod, and my son only wants 80s
    > techno and hair bands, so one big playlist per device keeps everything
    > segregated.


    if you have a playlist per device, presumably with that person's
    favourite music, sync that playlist and any sub-playlists based off it
    and it should 'just work.'
     
    nospam, Mar 7, 2012
    #14
  15. Todd Allcock <> writes:

    > At 06 Mar 2012 12:24:02 -0800 nospam wrote:
    > > In article <jj5qpb$ho6$>, Todd Allcock
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I don't really notice with music because I "presync" music by having a
    > > > master playlist that contains the music I want on a particular device,
    > > > and only sync that one playlist with the device. This allows me to

    > edit
    > > > the devices' music contents when they're disconnected by editing the
    > > > playlist itself, and those changes are synced at the next connection.

    > I
    > > > wish I could do that with video as well.

    > >
    > > music you can pre-sync by updating the playlists that are on the
    > > device. other stuff you can't, such as apps.
    > >
    > > > Of course, that has a downside as well, since using a single master
    > > > playlist disallows other playlists from being added to it. (You can't
    > > > "nest" playlists.) iTunes has a "playlist folders" construct that will
    > > > hold multiple playlists, but individual songs and albums can't be

    > added
    > > > to a playlist folder- only other playlists can.

    > >
    > > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?

    >
    >
    > I use one single playlist as a "proxy" for each disconnected device, and
    > sync only that single playlist (e.g. "iPhone 3GS", "the Kids' iPod") with
    > each corresponding device. Those playlists might have several GB of music.
    > But, because you can't put a playlist inside another playlist, I can't
    > put playlists on a device, at least not without abandoning my workaround
    > (one giant playlist per device).
    >
    > To sync multiple playlists with a device, I'd either have to change the
    > way I work (keep track of multiple playlists, songs, albums, etc. on each
    > device) or use a single master playlist folder for each device (if that's
    > even allowed) instead of a single playlist. But, since those folders can
    > only hold playlists, not songs or albumsI could only sync playlists with
    > my device s, forcing new to create playlists of "everything not already
    > on another playlist" to drag into the folder.
    >
    > Frankly, much of this nonsense is to kludge manual music management on
    > iDevices, since they don't handle that well at all. (For example,
    > manually managed music is wiped out in an OS upgrade, but my single
    > "manually edited" playlist isn't.)
    >
    > Maybe there's an easier way to manage multiple devices for multiple users
    > with dissimilar tastes, but I haven't found it. My wife doesn't want my
    > daughters' Selena Gomez albums on her iPhone, the girls would rather not
    > see Joni Mitchell or Cat Stevens on their iPod, and my son only wants 80s
    > techno and hair bands, so one big playlist per device keeps everything
    > segregated.


    So if you were on a mac, each user would have their own account, and
    they would log in before connecting their iDevice, so they could sync
    with the iTunes from their own account.

    Then you wouldn't be running into this problem.

    Does this not make sense on current versions of Windows?
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 7, 2012
    #15
  16. Todd Allcock <> writes:

    > At 07 Mar 2012 08:11:09 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > >
    > > > At 06 Mar 2012 12:24:02 -0800 nospam wrote:
    > > > > In article <jj5qpb$ho6$>, Todd Allcock
    > > > > <> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > I don't really notice with music because I "presync" music by

    > having a
    > > > > > master playlist that contains the music I want on a particular

    > device,
    > > > > > and only sync that one playlist with the device. This allows me to
    > > > edit
    > > > > > the devices' music contents when they're disconnected by editing

    > the
    > > > > > playlist itself, and those changes are synced at the next

    > connection.
    > > > I
    > > > > > wish I could do that with video as well.
    > > > >
    > > > > music you can pre-sync by updating the playlists that are on the
    > > > > device. other stuff you can't, such as apps.
    > > > >
    > > > > > Of course, that has a downside as well, since using a single

    > master
    > > > > > playlist disallows other playlists from being added to it. (You

    > can't
    > > > > > "nest" playlists.) iTunes has a "playlist folders" construct that

    > will
    > > > > > hold multiple playlists, but individual songs and albums can't be
    > > > added
    > > > > > to a playlist folder- only other playlists can.
    > > > >
    > > > > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I use one single playlist as a "proxy" for each disconnected device,

    > and
    > > > sync only that single playlist (e.g. "iPhone 3GS", "the Kids' iPod")

    > with
    > > > each corresponding device. Those playlists might have several GB of

    > music.
    > > > But, because you can't put a playlist inside another playlist, I

    > can't
    > > > put playlists on a device, at least not without abandoning my

    > workaround
    > > > (one giant playlist per device).
    > > >
    > > > To sync multiple playlists with a device, I'd either have to change

    > the
    > > > way I work (keep track of multiple playlists, songs, albums, etc. on

    > each
    > > > device) or use a single master playlist folder for each device (if

    > that's
    > > > even allowed) instead of a single playlist. But, since those folders

    > can
    > > > only hold playlists, not songs or albumsI could only sync playlists

    > with
    > > > my device s, forcing new to create playlists of "everything not

    > already
    > > > on another playlist" to drag into the folder.
    > > >
    > > > Frankly, much of this nonsense is to kludge manual music management on
    > > > iDevices, since they don't handle that well at all. (For example,
    > > > manually managed music is wiped out in an OS upgrade, but my single
    > > > "manually edited" playlist isn't.)
    > > >
    > > > Maybe there's an easier way to manage multiple devices for multiple

    > users
    > > > with dissimilar tastes, but I haven't found it. My wife doesn't want

    > my
    > > > daughters' Selena Gomez albums on her iPhone, the girls would rather

    > not
    > > > see Joni Mitchell or Cat Stevens on their iPod, and my son only wants

    > 80s
    > > > techno and hair bands, so one big playlist per device keeps everything
    > > > segregated.

    > >
    > > So if you were on a mac, each user would have their own account, and
    > > they would log in before connecting their iDevice, so they could sync
    > > with the iTunes from their own account.
    > >
    > > Then you wouldn't be running into this problem.
    > >
    > > Does this not make sense on current versions of Windows?

    >
    >
    > If we only had one computer in the house, maybe, but we have several, but
    > only one has our "master" media library, mine. I'm not going to create
    > several users on my computer just to sync iDevices. ;)


    Well, that isn't really why one creates several users.

    I don't have to worry about my wife or my kids accidentally messing up
    my documents. We each have our own bookmarks, our own projects on our
    Desktops, and our own email being accessed by the email client.

    > Besides, even with multiple users, they'd still be looking at the same
    > media on the same hard drive, so how does that fix anything? I'd still
    > be making different playlists/selections for each user, except with the
    > added inconvenience of logging off and on each time I wanted to update
    > their playlists or sync.


    No. Each user's files are in their own folder. (I know that windows
    used to spew user files across the directory, putting Word documents
    in the WOrd folder, Excel documents in the Excel folder, etc. I think
    even MicroSoft has cleaned up their act about that).

    So if you had separate users, each would have their own iTunes
    library. At least that is how it works on Macs, and I suspect that
    is how it works on Windows (now) with multiple users. So you never log
    off or on, except perhaps if you get to the computer and someone else
    has left themselves logged on, in which case you log them out and log
    in as you.

    Again, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume multiple
    users on Windows (now) works more or less the way multiple users has
    always worked in unix, and has worked on Macs since OS 10.0.
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 8, 2012
    #16
  17. Todd Allcock <> writes:

    > At 07 Mar 2012 20:13:41 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > >
    > > > At 07 Mar 2012 08:11:09 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > > > >
    > > > > > At 06 Mar 2012 12:24:02 -0800 nospam wrote:
    > > > > > > In article <jj5qpb$ho6$>, Todd Allcock
    > > > > > > <> wrote:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > I don't really notice with music because I "presync" music by
    > > > having a
    > > > > > > > master playlist that contains the music I want on a particular
    > > > device,
    > > > > > > > and only sync that one playlist with the device. This allows

    > me to
    > > > > > edit
    > > > > > > > the devices' music contents when they're disconnected by

    > editing
    > > > the
    > > > > > > > playlist itself, and those changes are synced at the next
    > > > connection.
    > > > > > I
    > > > > > > > wish I could do that with video as well.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > music you can pre-sync by updating the playlists that are on the
    > > > > > > device. other stuff you can't, such as apps.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Of course, that has a downside as well, since using a single
    > > > master
    > > > > > > > playlist disallows other playlists from being added to it.

    > (You
    > > > can't
    > > > > > > > "nest" playlists.) iTunes has a "playlist folders" construct

    > that
    > > > will
    > > > > > > > hold multiple playlists, but individual songs and albums

    > can't be
    > > > > > added
    > > > > > > > to a playlist folder- only other playlists can.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > I use one single playlist as a "proxy" for each disconnected

    > device,
    > > > and
    > > > > > sync only that single playlist (e.g. "iPhone 3GS", "the Kids'

    > iPod")
    > > > with
    > > > > > each corresponding device. Those playlists might have several GB

    > of
    > > > music.
    > > > > > But, because you can't put a playlist inside another playlist, I
    > > > can't
    > > > > > put playlists on a device, at least not without abandoning my
    > > > workaround
    > > > > > (one giant playlist per device).
    > > > > >
    > > > > > To sync multiple playlists with a device, I'd either have to

    > change
    > > > the
    > > > > > way I work (keep track of multiple playlists, songs, albums, etc.

    > on
    > > > each
    > > > > > device) or use a single master playlist folder for each device (if
    > > > that's
    > > > > > even allowed) instead of a single playlist. But, since those

    > folders
    > > > can
    > > > > > only hold playlists, not songs or albumsI could only sync

    > playlists
    > > > with
    > > > > > my device s, forcing new to create playlists of "everything not
    > > > already
    > > > > > on another playlist" to drag into the folder.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Frankly, much of this nonsense is to kludge manual music

    > management on
    > > > > > iDevices, since they don't handle that well at all. (For example,
    > > > > > manually managed music is wiped out in an OS upgrade, but my

    > single
    > > > > > "manually edited" playlist isn't.)
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Maybe there's an easier way to manage multiple devices for

    > multiple
    > > > users
    > > > > > with dissimilar tastes, but I haven't found it. My wife doesn't

    > want
    > > > my
    > > > > > daughters' Selena Gomez albums on her iPhone, the girls would

    > rather
    > > > not
    > > > > > see Joni Mitchell or Cat Stevens on their iPod, and my son only

    > wants
    > > > 80s
    > > > > > techno and hair bands, so one big playlist per device keeps

    > everything
    > > > > > segregated.
    > > > >
    > > > > So if you were on a mac, each user would have their own account, and
    > > > > they would log in before connecting their iDevice, so they could

    > sync
    > > > > with the iTunes from their own account.
    > > > >
    > > > > Then you wouldn't be running into this problem.
    > > > >
    > > > > Does this not make sense on current versions of Windows?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > If we only had one computer in the house, maybe, but we have several,

    > but
    > > > only one has our "master" media library, mine. I'm not going to create
    > > > several users on my computer just to sync iDevices. ;)

    > >
    > > Well, that isn't really why one creates several users.

    >
    > I realize that, but as I said, most of us have our own PC., so in this
    > case it would be just for syncing.


    I'm more confused now.

    If you each have your own PC, why don't each of you sync to your own
    PC?

    > > I don't have to worry about my wife or my kids accidentally messing up
    > > my documents. We each have our own bookmarks, our own projects on our
    > > Desktops, and our own email being accessed by the email client.
    > >
    > > > Besides, even with multiple users, they'd still be looking at the same
    > > > media on the same hard drive, so how does that fix anything? I'd

    > still
    > > > be making different playlists/selections for each user, except with

    > the
    > > > added inconvenience of logging off and on each time I wanted to update
    > > > their playlists or sync.

    > >
    > > No. Each user's files are in their own folder. (I know that windows
    > > used to spew user files across the directory, putting Word documents
    > > in the WOrd folder, Excel documents in the Excel folder, etc.

    >
    > For user-created docs that's fine. For GBs of media, that's redundant and
    > annoying.


    Not if you each listen to different music. Then there is no
    redundancy.

    I probably have 50 songs worth of redundancy with my kids. My disk
    drive can afford the 150 MB. I bet yours can too.

    > > I think
    > > even MicroSoft has cleaned up their act about that).

    >
    > Yes, back in 1998 or so, of memory serves.


    I'm happy my memory is more or less right about that, though I guess I
    thought this didn't start to happen in a real way until Windows XP,
    and even then, home folders for users were implemented in a strange
    and inconsistent way. But that _must_ be fixed by now.

    So, if you had separate users (which I see now you don't need
    since you have separate computers, leaving me more confused) there
    wouldn't be any playlists or the like to maintain.
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 8, 2012
    #17
  18. Todd Allcock <> writes:

    > At 07 Mar 2012 20:43:42 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > >
    > > > At 07 Mar 2012 20:13:41 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > > > >
    > > > > > At 07 Mar 2012 08:11:09 -0800 Doug Anderson wrote:
    > > > > > > Todd Allcock <> writes:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > At 06 Mar 2012 12:24:02 -0800 nospam wrote:
    > > > > > > > > In article <jj5qpb$ho6$>, Todd Allcock
    > > > > > > > > <> wrote:
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > I don't really notice with music because I "presync"

    > music by
    > > > > > having a
    > > > > > > > > > master playlist that contains the music I want on a

    > particular
    > > > > > device,
    > > > > > > > > > and only sync that one playlist with the device. This

    > allows
    > > > me to
    > > > > > > > edit
    > > > > > > > > > the devices' music contents when they're disconnected by
    > > > editing
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > > > > > playlist itself, and those changes are synced at the next
    > > > > > connection.
    > > > > > > > I
    > > > > > > > > > wish I could do that with video as well.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > music you can pre-sync by updating the playlists that are

    > on the
    > > > > > > > > device. other stuff you can't, such as apps.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > > Of course, that has a downside as well, since using a

    > single
    > > > > > master
    > > > > > > > > > playlist disallows other playlists from being added to it.
    > > > (You
    > > > > > can't
    > > > > > > > > > "nest" playlists.) iTunes has a "playlist folders"

    > construct
    > > > that
    > > > > > will
    > > > > > > > > > hold multiple playlists, but individual songs and albums
    > > > can't be
    > > > > > > > added
    > > > > > > > > > to a playlist folder- only other playlists can.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > > what would adding a song to a playlist folder do?
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > I use one single playlist as a "proxy" for each disconnected
    > > > device,
    > > > > > and
    > > > > > > > sync only that single playlist (e.g. "iPhone 3GS", "the Kids'
    > > > iPod")
    > > > > > with
    > > > > > > > each corresponding device. Those playlists might have

    > several GB
    > > > of
    > > > > > music.
    > > > > > > > But, because you can't put a playlist inside another playlist,

    >
    > I
    > > > > > can't
    > > > > > > > put playlists on a device, at least not without abandoning my
    > > > > > workaround
    > > > > > > > (one giant playlist per device).
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > To sync multiple playlists with a device, I'd either have to
    > > > change
    > > > > > the
    > > > > > > > way I work (keep track of multiple playlists, songs, albums,

    > etc.
    > > > on
    > > > > > each
    > > > > > > > device) or use a single master playlist folder for each

    > device (if
    > > > > > that's
    > > > > > > > even allowed) instead of a single playlist. But, since those
    > > > folders
    > > > > > can
    > > > > > > > only hold playlists, not songs or albumsI could only sync
    > > > playlists
    > > > > > with
    > > > > > > > my device s, forcing new to create playlists of "everything

    > not
    > > > > > already
    > > > > > > > on another playlist" to drag into the folder.
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Frankly, much of this nonsense is to kludge manual music
    > > > management on
    > > > > > > > iDevices, since they don't handle that well at all. (For

    > example,
    > > > > > > > manually managed music is wiped out in an OS upgrade, but my
    > > > single
    > > > > > > > "manually edited" playlist isn't.)
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Maybe there's an easier way to manage multiple devices for
    > > > multiple
    > > > > > users
    > > > > > > > with dissimilar tastes, but I haven't found it. My wife

    > doesn't
    > > > want
    > > > > > my
    > > > > > > > daughters' Selena Gomez albums on her iPhone, the girls would
    > > > rather
    > > > > > not
    > > > > > > > see Joni Mitchell or Cat Stevens on their iPod, and my son

    > only
    > > > wants
    > > > > > 80s
    > > > > > > > techno and hair bands, so one big playlist per device keeps
    > > > everything
    > > > > > > > segregated.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > So if you were on a mac, each user would have their own

    > account, and
    > > > > > > they would log in before connecting their iDevice, so they could
    > > > sync
    > > > > > > with the iTunes from their own account.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Then you wouldn't be running into this problem.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Does this not make sense on current versions of Windows?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > If we only had one computer in the house, maybe, but we have

    > several,
    > > > but
    > > > > > only one has our "master" media library, mine. I'm not going to

    > create
    > > > > > several users on my computer just to sync iDevices. ;)
    > > > >
    > > > > Well, that isn't really why one creates several users.
    > > >
    > > > I realize that, but as I said, most of us have our own PC., so in this
    > > > case it would be just for syncing.

    > >
    > > I'm more confused now.
    > >
    > > If you each have your own PC, why don't each of you sync to your own
    > > PC?
    > >
    > > > > I don't have to worry about my wife or my kids accidentally messing

    > up
    > > > > my documents. We each have our own bookmarks, our own projects on

    > our
    > > > > Desktops, and our own email being accessed by the email client.
    > > > >
    > > > > > Besides, even with multiple users, they'd still be looking at the

    > same
    > > > > > media on the same hard drive, so how does that fix anything? I'd
    > > > still
    > > > > > be making different playlists/selections for each user, except

    > with
    > > > the
    > > > > > added inconvenience of logging off and on each time I wanted to

    > update
    > > > > > their playlists or sync.
    > > > >
    > > > > No. Each user's files are in their own folder. (I know that

    > windows
    > > > > used to spew user files across the directory, putting Word documents
    > > > > in the WOrd folder, Excel documents in the Excel folder, etc.
    > > >
    > > > For user-created docs that's fine. For GBs of media, that's redundant

    > and
    > > > annoying.

    > >
    > > Not if you each listen to different music. Then there is no
    > > redundancy.

    >
    > Not true in our case. There's a small but significant bit of overlap.
    > Who doesn't like the Beatles (just as a single example)?
    >
    >
    > > I probably have 50 songs worth of redundancy with my kids. My disk
    > > drive can afford the 150 MB. I bet yours can too.

    >
    > I could even afford the few GB of overlap, but there doesn't seem to be
    > much if a practical upside for me in it.


    Not having to fiddle around to sync your iDevices seems worth
    sacrificing a couple hundred MB to me, but to each their own.

    > > > > I think
    > > > > even MicroSoft has cleaned up their act about that).
    > > >
    > > > Yes, back in 1998 or so, of memory serves.

    > >
    > > I'm happy my memory is more or less right about that, though I guess I
    > > thought this didn't start to happen in a real way until Windows XP,
    > > and even then, home folders for users were implemented in a strange
    > > and inconsistent way. But that _must_ be fixed by now.

    >
    > Yeah, starting in Vista, there are separate document, music and video
    > folders for
    > each user in a different hierarchy (e.g. \Users\Doug\Documents vs.
    > \Users\Todd\Documents. In XP it was a little more convoluted.


    Yeah, that matches what I thought.

    > > So, if you had separate users (which I see now you don't need
    > > since you have separate computers, leaving me more confused) there
    > > wouldn't be any playlists or the like to maintain.

    >
    > No, but instead there'd be that many libraries to maintain instead.


    Maintain? I don't know. If I want a CD on my iPod, I rip it for
    myself. If my daughter wants one on her iPod, she does the same.

    > Hardly seems like an advantage. In my scenario, I rip a CD into the
    > library, then I drag it to the appropriate playlist (or lists, if it has
    > appeal to more than one of us.) In your scenario, I'd potentially be
    > riping the same CD multiple times, or least importing the first rip into
    > multiple libraries after switching between users.


    No, you rip it once for yourself. If someone else in your family
    wants the same CD, they probably end up ripping it themselves.

    > I'm not knocking the multi-user scenario- it has legitimate applications.
    > I've just never needed it. Even back when PCs were more expensive, my
    > wife and I shared them with a single login. Neither of us have any
    > secrets to hide, and access to each other's documents and email comes in
    > handy (particularly when we both traveled for work more often.) Even now
    > with separate computers, we both can access each other's email,
    > calendars, etc., in our respective copies of Outlook.


    It isn't about secrets, it's about organization. (Though I wouldn't
    be happy about my kids having unlimited access to my email.) My kids and
    my wife manage their own desktops they way they want, and I manage mine
    the way I want. Much nicer for me, and probably for them.

    But anyway, if it works for you, fine, though obviously you aren't
    happy about how it works for syncing.
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 8, 2012
    #18
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