Hard drive warranties being slashed

Discussion in 'DIY Computers' started by Jaimie Vandenbergh, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. Jaimie Vandenbergh, Dec 19, 2011
    #1
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  2. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    recursor Guest

    recursor, Dec 19, 2011
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:36:32 +0000, recursor <>
    wrote:

    >On 12/19/2011 12:34 PM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    >> WD:
    >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/15/wd_warranty_period_cuts/
    >>
    >> Seagate follow:
    >> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222760/Hard_drive_manufacturers_slash_warranty_periods
    >>

    >Apparently they don't last as long when they've been underwater for two
    >weeks. :)


    How better to persuade people that reconditioned waterlogged
    production lines are in fine form, than to cut the warranty from five
    years to one? It's perfect!

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    Happiness, n.: An agreeable sensation arising from contemplating the
    misery of another. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
     
    Jaimie Vandenbergh, Dec 19, 2011
    #3
  4. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Rob Morley Guest

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:31:39 +0000
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:36:32 +0000, recursor <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >On 12/19/2011 12:34 PM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    > >> WD:
    > >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/15/wd_warranty_period_cuts/
    > >>
    > >> Seagate follow:
    > >> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222760/Hard_drive_manufacturers_slash_warranty_periods
    > >>

    > >Apparently they don't last as long when they've been underwater for
    > >two weeks. :)

    >
    > How better to persuade people that reconditioned waterlogged
    > production lines are in fine form, than to cut the warranty from five
    > years to one? It's perfect!
    >

    Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage, and
    reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    contingency fund.
     
    Rob Morley, Dec 19, 2011
    #4
  5. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Henry Law Guest

    On 19/12/11 14:43, Rob Morley wrote:
    > Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    > just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage, and
    > reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    > contingency fund.


    Indeed; warranty on disks which are "out there" constitute a liability
    on the balance sheet which the suits can calculate quite accurately,
    based on their knowledge of the actual failure rates. Reducing it gives
    them an instant transfusion to the bottom line.

    It's a typical stupid, short-term, market-driven
    (share-option-value-driven?) thing to do, though. Everybody who knows
    anything has already decided not to buy WD next time round. Will their
    corporate customers do the same?

    --

    Henry Law Manchester, England
     
    Henry Law, Dec 19, 2011
    #5
  6. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Mark Guest

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:43:38 +0000, Rob Morley <>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:31:39 +0000
    >Jaimie Vandenbergh <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:36:32 +0000, recursor <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On 12/19/2011 12:34 PM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    >> >> WD:
    >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/15/wd_warranty_period_cuts/
    >> >>
    >> >> Seagate follow:
    >> >> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9222760/Hard_drive_manufacturers_slash_warranty_periods
    >> >>
    >> >Apparently they don't last as long when they've been underwater for
    >> >two weeks. :)

    >>
    >> How better to persuade people that reconditioned waterlogged
    >> production lines are in fine form, than to cut the warranty from five
    >> years to one? It's perfect!
    >>

    >Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    >just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage, and
    >reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    >contingency fund.


    It does suggest that they get a significant number of valid claims
    within the old warranty period though. Therefore this seems to good
    reason to avoid Seagate & WD drives (assuming that you can find *any*
    drives for sale ;-)
    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
    (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
    posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
    everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
     
    Mark, Dec 19, 2011
    #6
  7. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Rob Morley Guest

    On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:01:56 +0000
    Mark <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:43:38 +0000, Rob Morley <>
    > wrote:


    > >Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    > >just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage,
    > >and reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    > >contingency fund.

    >
    > It does suggest that they get a significant number of valid claims
    > within the old warranty period though.


    They manufacture vast quantities of HDs, we all know that these have a
    limited life, obviously they expect to get some back.

    > Therefore this seems to good
    > reason to avoid Seagate & WD drives (assuming that you can find *any*
    > drives for sale ;-)


    It's certainly a factor but not necessarily an overriding one.
     
    Rob Morley, Dec 19, 2011
    #7
  8. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    GB Guest

    GB, Dec 20, 2011
    #8
  9. On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:21:14 -0000, "GB" <>
    wrote:

    >Can anyone explain to me why reducing the warranty on sales of new disks
    >would free up reserves for warranties on disks that have already been sold?


    It doesn't free up those reserves*, those are still covered by
    negative lines in the expected accounts - but they'll reduce year on
    year as drives come out of warranty.

    The knowledge that they *will* reduce allows the company to plan to
    re-allocate the cash into more interesting budgets - which can pump
    the share price thus creating useful cash now.

    *They're not really reserves, of course, each year they come out of
    this year's accounts - like pensions, they don't store the money up in
    a savings account.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    Whilst holidaying with the sprogs and watching Favourite Teddy Bear
    trundling through the x-ray, I speculated on the fun that could be had
    with a teddy bear containing a radio-opaque teddy-bear skeleton.
    - K, asr
     
    Jaimie Vandenbergh, Dec 20, 2011
    #9
  10. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    recursor Guest

    On 12/20/2011 10:38 AM, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    > On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:21:14 -0000, "GB"<>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Can anyone explain to me why reducing the warranty on sales of new disks
    >> would free up reserves for warranties on disks that have already been sold?

    >
    > It doesn't free up those reserves*, those are still covered by
    > negative lines in the expected accounts - but they'll reduce year on
    > year as drives come out of warranty.
    >
    > The knowledge that they *will* reduce allows the company to plan to
    > re-allocate the cash into more interesting budgets


    That would be the executive's pension pots I suppose. :)
     
    recursor, Dec 20, 2011
    #10
  11. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Daniel James Guest

    In article <20111219144338.456ff246@bluemoon>, Rob Morley wrote:
    > Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    > just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage, and
    > reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    > contingency fund.


    That's probably part of it ... but the contingency fund is likely to be
    an insurance policy rather than a sack of cash under the workbench.
    Their insurers have probably been hit quite hard by the floods and will
    be looking to increase premiums. Reducing the warranty periods may help
    keep those premiums lower.

    What they appear not to have considered is that people don't choose
    drives with long warranties because they want still to be able to get a
    replacement drive in five years time -- nobody wants to have a drive
    fail at *any* time -- people buy drives with long warranty periods
    because they see the warranty period as an indication of the likelihood
    that the drive will fail at all, and drives with long warranties are
    seen as more reliable.

    If you offer a shorter warranty than your competitors people will think
    that this means you think that your drives are less reliable. Nobody
    likes the downtime of having a dead drive, having to test and RMA it,
    having to restore data to the new drive ... we buy the ones we think are
    least likely to fail.

    Mind you, if all the manufacturers do it then all we can do is shout
    "Cartel" and hope that someone raps their knuckles.

    Cheers,
    Daniel.
     
    Daniel James, Dec 20, 2011
    #11
  12. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    fred Guest

    In article <>, Daniel James
    <> writes
    >In article <20111219144338.456ff246@bluemoon>, Rob Morley wrote:
    >> Of course it's not really about the quality of new production - they
    >> just had to find some cash in a hurry because of the flood damage, and
    >> reducing the warranty period lets them dip into the warranty
    >> contingency fund.

    >
    >That's probably part of it ... but the contingency fund is likely to be
    >an insurance policy rather than a sack of cash under the workbench.
    >Their insurers have probably been hit quite hard by the floods and will
    >be looking to increase premiums. Reducing the warranty periods may help
    >keep those premiums lower.
    >

    I'd expect a business of that size to self insure that kind of risk (to
    a limit), it'll save on all sorts of external costs.

    2 options as I see it:

    1. Continue buying from manufacturers offering longer warranties[1}.

    2. Start buying drives from PCWorld[2] and use small claims online to
    enforce your consumer rights (no way a drive lasting less than 2 yrs was
    free from a manufacturing defect or was in any way 'durable'.


    [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their PR
    people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for
    posterity.

    [2] This outfit as I have no wish to make my regular local suppliers
    suffer for the manufacturers' failure to support their product but would
    happily drag a reputed serial SOGA denier through the courts to send a
    message.
    --
    fred
    it's a ba-na-na . . . .
     
    fred, Dec 21, 2011
    #12
  13. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Clive George Guest

    On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:

    > [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    > form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their PR
    > people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    > (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for posterity.


    Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than the
    manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or take out
    service contracts on the machines, and the providers of those contracts
    don't check disk warranties but take the hit themselves again.
     
    Clive George, Dec 21, 2011
    #13
  14. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    GB Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:
    >
    >> [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    >> form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their
    >> PR people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    >> (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for
    >> posterity.

    >
    > Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than
    > the manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or
    > take out service contracts on the machines, and the providers of
    > those contracts don't check disk warranties but take the hit
    > themselves again.


    there must be a lot of large corporate that would object to hard disks being
    sent away for for a warranty repair. They would rather it was destroyed on
    the spot and a new one bought to replace. Certainly, as a very small
    corporate, that would be my approach. With a fully functional disc, there
    is software that can be run to erase it, if you can be bothered. For a
    non-functional disc, that cannot be done, yet there remains the possibility
    of extracting data from it.

    --
    Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
    saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
    http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/how_to_become_a_donor.jsp
     
    GB, Dec 21, 2011
    #14
  15. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    fred Guest

    In article <>, Clive
    George <> writes
    >On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:
    >
    >> [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    >> form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their PR
    >> people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    >> (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for posterity.

    >
    >Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than the
    >manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or take out
    >service contracts on the machines, and the providers of those contracts
    >don't check disk warranties but take the hit themselves again.


    Not desperately important but by corporates, in this instance, I meant
    the Maxtor suits, meaning that they would give the lowest warranty that
    wouldn't hurt their bottom line (or rather would do if they still
    existed). Other comments noted.

    For a while I thought Seagate were better than that but opinions change.

    Rotating sh*t list rules now apply.
    --
    fred
    it's a ba-na-na . . . .
     
    fred, Dec 21, 2011
    #15
  16. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Clive George Guest

    On 21/12/2011 18:49, GB wrote:
    > Clive George wrote:
    >> On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:
    >>
    >>> [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    >>> form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their
    >>> PR people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    >>> (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for
    >>> posterity.

    >>
    >> Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than
    >> the manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or
    >> take out service contracts on the machines, and the providers of
    >> those contracts don't check disk warranties but take the hit
    >> themselves again.

    >
    > there must be a lot of large corporate that would object to hard disks being
    > sent away for for a warranty repair. They would rather it was destroyed on
    > the spot and a new one bought to replace. Certainly, as a very small
    > corporate, that would be my approach. With a fully functional disc, there
    > is software that can be run to erase it, if you can be bothered. For a
    > non-functional disc, that cannot be done, yet there remains the possibility
    > of extracting data from it.


    Does anybody send HDs away for warranty repair? They're generally not
    repairable devices - if you've got a bust one you simply replace it.

    Disposing of the old one is a service provided by the maintenance
    contract people - they've got the appropriate certifications to say
    "Yes, we do it properly, your data is safe with us".
     
    Clive George, Dec 21, 2011
    #16
  17. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Clive George Guest

    On 21/12/2011 18:50, fred wrote:
    > In article <>, Clive
    > George <> writes
    >> On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:
    >>
    >>> [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    >>> form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their PR
    >>> people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    >>> (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for
    >>> posterity.

    >>
    >> Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than the
    >> manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or take out
    >> service contracts on the machines, and the providers of those contracts
    >> don't check disk warranties but take the hit themselves again.

    >
    > Not desperately important but by corporates, in this instance, I meant
    > the Maxtor suits, meaning that they would give the lowest warranty that
    > wouldn't hurt their bottom line (or rather would do if they still
    > existed). Other comments noted.


    Ah, I see what you mean :) The fact that customers like the corporates
    I mentioned don't care will of course help the decision to lower warranty.
     
    Clive George, Dec 21, 2011
    #17
  18. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Mark Guest

    On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 18:49:18 -0000, "GB" <>
    wrote:

    >Clive George wrote:
    >> On 21/12/2011 12:59, fred wrote:
    >>
    >>> [1} That was my approach when Maxtor led the last warranty reduction
    >>> form 5yrs and haven't bought one since. I had a good chat with their
    >>> PR people over it then, finally getting a 'the corporates don't care'
    >>> (unless it affects the bottom line) comment which I stored for
    >>> posterity.

    >>
    >> Corporates don't care. They buy their HDs from resellers rather than
    >> the manufacturers, and let the resellers take the warranty hit, or
    >> take out service contracts on the machines, and the providers of
    >> those contracts don't check disk warranties but take the hit
    >> themselves again.

    >
    >there must be a lot of large corporate that would object to hard disks being
    >sent away for for a warranty repair. They would rather it was destroyed on
    >the spot and a new one bought to replace. Certainly, as a very small
    >corporate, that would be my approach. With a fully functional disc, there
    >is software that can be run to erase it, if you can be bothered. For a
    >non-functional disc, that cannot be done, yet there remains the possibility
    >of extracting data from it.


    At what cost though? Unless your data is particularly sensitive I
    think physical destruction is OTT.
    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
    (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
    posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
    everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
     
    Mark, Dec 22, 2011
    #18
  19. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    GB Guest

    Mark wrote:
    >
    > At what cost though? Unless your data is particularly sensitive I
    > think physical destruction is OTT.


    Define sensitive. I used to do contract work for the pensions department of
    a large corporate. Are the earnings and personal details of the senior
    executives sensitive? Possibly not for the most senior execs, as this info
    tends to be in the published accounts anyway, but for the next tier down
    it's not public info.





    --
    Register as an organ donor with the NHS online. It takes 1 minute and
    saves you carrying an organ donor card with you.
    http://www.uktransplant.org.uk/ukt/how_to_become_a_donor/how_to_become_a_donor.jsp
     
    GB, Dec 22, 2011
    #19
  20. Jaimie Vandenbergh

    Mark Guest

    On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:26:21 -0000, "GB" <>
    wrote:

    >Mark wrote:
    >>
    >> At what cost though? Unless your data is particularly sensitive I
    >> think physical destruction is OTT.

    >
    >Define sensitive. I used to do contract work for the pensions department of
    >a large corporate. Are the earnings and personal details of the senior
    >executives sensitive? Possibly not for the most senior execs, as this info
    >tends to be in the published accounts anyway, but for the next tier down
    >it's not public info.


    I look at it this way. Why would anyone bother to attempt to extract
    data from some random failed hard disk? Unless someone suspects that
    there is something highly valuable on there then I can't see why
    anyone would try. There's easier ways of getting personal data than
    this, I think.
    --
    (\__/) M.
    (='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
    (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
    posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
    everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
     
    Mark, Dec 22, 2011
    #20
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