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[SOLVED] upside down photos?

 
 
Wes Groleau
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      Jun 8th, 12, 4:29 AM
On 06-07-2012 23:11, nospam wrote:
> In article <jqrm0f$hph$(E-Mail Removed)>, Todd Allcock
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>> (I just tested my WinMo phone and intentionally took a photo with the
>>>> phone upside down and emailed it. The phone corrected it on capture,
>>>> the sent photo appears oriented correctly in both my phone and Windows
>>>> PC's email client.)
>>>
>>> weird. does it at least losslessly rotate the image?

>>
>> Beats me. The camera sucks so bad I couldn't tell lossless from lossy.

>
> ok i'll assume it's lossy


Rotation in multiples of 90° (or π/2 if you prefer) should be lossless,
because you just rearrange the pixels without needing to do any
dithering or interpolating.

Any other rotation has to be lossy--the question is how bad.

--
Wes Groleau

“In the field of language teaching, Method A is the logical
contradiction of Method B: if the assumptions from which
A claims to be derived are correct, then B cannot work,
and vice versa. Yet one colleague is getting excellent
results with A and another is getting comparable results
with B. How is this possible?”
— Earl W. Stevick



 
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nospam
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      Jun 8th, 12, 4:45 AM
In article <jqrrj5$c2s$(E-Mail Removed)>, Wes Groleau
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >>>> (I just tested my WinMo phone and intentionally took a photo with the
> >>>> phone upside down and emailed it. The phone corrected it on capture,
> >>>> the sent photo appears oriented correctly in both my phone and Windows
> >>>> PC's email client.)
> >>>
> >>> weird. does it at least losslessly rotate the image?
> >>
> >> Beats me. The camera sucks so bad I couldn't tell lossless from lossy.

> >
> > ok i'll assume it's lossy

>
> Rotation in multiples of 90 (or /2 if you prefer) should be lossless,
> because you just rearrange the pixels without needing to do any
> dithering or interpolating.


it *can* be lossless. not all software will rotate 90 degrees
losslessly.

> Any other rotation has to be lossy--the question is how bad.


true.
 
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DevilsPGD
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      Jun 8th, 12, 8:42 AM
In the last episode of <1klddkz.1c0ocgnar52jhN%(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) (David Empson) said:

>DevilsPGD <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> In the last episode of <1klcmik.neuv56118fbdcN%(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> (E-Mail Removed) (David Empson) said:
>>
>> >Footnote: I've seen a comment that Windows 8 implements the Orientation
>> >tag, but haven't confirmed this myself.

>>
>> Windows 7 honours it when photos are imported from a camera, but
>> otherwise the built-in tools don't honour it if the file is received via
>> another method (email, for example)

>
>Does that mean Windows 7 actually rotates the photo to the specified
>orientation when importing from a camera? (If not, the display problem
>in other applications would still apply.)


Yes.

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My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do
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      Jun 8th, 12, 12:22 PM
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 02:08:35 +1200, (E-Mail Removed) (David Empson)
wrote:

>Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> My Name Is Tzu How Do You Do <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> > On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 09:04:57 -0700, nospam <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> >> Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I took a photo using the back camera on the iPad using the camera app
>> >>> that came with the iPad. I e-mailed it to a friend from the iPad. My
>> >>> friend said that the photo I e-mailed him is upside down. What went
>> >>> wrong?
>> >>
>> >> his software is ignoring the orientation tag.
>> >>
>> >> he needs to update whatever software he's using or use something else
>> >> that does.
>> >
>> >
>> > Why not have the app that takes it and sets it that way OFFER the user
>> > an option to flip it at creation/save time. Godfdamned AppleTards
>> > foisting a 'norm' again that is NOT normal.
>> >
>> > I mean bass ackwards is bass ackwards.
>> >
>> > Having the prompt to flip the tag should be the norm, since the picture
>> > as saved, is not (normal). Failing to update the software to include
>> > either full exif edit session capacity or a simple switch for this
>> > debacle (yes, it IS) should be forthcoming forthwith!
>> >
>> > But NOOOOOOOooooooooo...

>>
>> It was saved where the photos are saved on the iPad then I had an option to
>> send it by e-mail so maybe the iPad does not send the exif information.

>
>The EXIF data is buried inside the JPEG at the time the photo is taken,
>and it includes an Orientation tag. (I've tested this using my iPad, and
>my iPhone for comparison.)
>
>The first half of the problem is that standard software on Windows, plus
>common third party web browsers and e-mail clients on both Windows and
>Mac (I haven't checked Linux) completely ignore the Orientation tag,
>despite it being a defined part of EXIF and having been in use for
>several years on a variety of devices (assuming nospam is right about
>the timing of it being used by digital cameras).
>
>The second half of the problem is that as of iOS 4 (mid 2010), Apple
>decided to rely on the EXIF Orientation tag to rotate photos, rather
>than phyisically rotating the image when creating the JPEG. This seems
>an odd decision given almost nonexistent support for EXIF Orientation on
>Windows. Apple's main reason for doing this was probably to save
>processing time and power consumption in the iOS device. This method has
>continued to be used in iOS 5.
>
>Since the affected applications ignore the Orientation tag, they show
>the photo in the physical orientation it occurs in the JPEG, which for
>an iPad or iPhone corresponds to the landscape orientation with the
>camera at the top of the image.
>
>If you were holding the iPad or iPhone in landscape with the camera at
>the bottom, then the photo saved by the iPad or iPhone is physically
>upside down, with an Orientation tag instructing the viewing software to
>rotate it 180 degrees. If the viewing software doesn't pay attention to
>the Orientation tag, then it will display the photo upside down.
>
>If you have access to a Mac which is running Apple's standard Mail
>client and with Firefox installed, it is easy to test this. E-mail
>yourself a photo taken "upside down" with the iPad. Mail will show the
>photo up the right way. Now save the attached JPEG image, and
>drag-and-drop it to Firefox. Firefox will show the picture upside down.
>This is because Firefox is ignoring the Orientation tag, while Mail is
>recognising it.
>
>Alternatively, if you have access to both a Mac and Windows PC, e-mail
>the same photo to both computers, and observe that the Mac has the photo
>up the right way (because Mail understands the Orientation tag) while
>the Windows PC has it upside down (because its e-mail client doesn't
>understand the Orientation tag).



And here I thought that I was just a little angry... asshole.
(oh, that's right... I am!)(tee hee hee)

*This guy* has a doctorate in every nth detail of this exif situation.
Way more on the ball than I.

I am going to do some testing as I have both Linux OS installs (and
live media) as well as a recent and up to date MS product install.
(didn't want to upset anyone by using the w word) :-)
 
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Brian
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      Jun 8th, 12, 1:31 PM
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> I took a photo using the back camera on the iPad using the camera app that
> came with the iPad. I e-mailed it to a friend from the iPad. My friend said
> that the photo I e-mailed him is upside down. What went wrong?


When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the left or
the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken the correct way
up?

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Michelle Steiner
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      Jun 8th, 12, 1:58 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the left
> or the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken the
> correct way up?


Here is how to find out:

1. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the left, take a picture.
2. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the right, take a picture.
3. Email both pictures to your computer.
4. View both pictures in a web browser.

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TaliesinSoft
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      Jun 8th, 12, 2:20 PM
On 2012-06-08 12:31:57 +0000, Brian said:

> When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the left or
> the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken the correct way
> up?


I just took four photos with my iPad using the front camera, two
vertical and two horizontal so that all four positionings of the camera
were used, and all of the photos appeared upright when viewed in iPhoto.

--
James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas

 
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Michelle Steiner
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      Jun 8th, 12, 2:47 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
TaliesinSoft <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> > When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the
> > left or the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken
> > the correct way up?

>
> I just took four photos with my iPad using the front camera, two
> vertical and two horizontal so that all four positionings of the camera
> were used, and all of the photos appeared upright when viewed in iPhoto.


Yes, iPhoto uses the orientation EXIF. Try emailing the photos to your
computer, then viewing them in Safari.

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Brian
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      Jun 9th, 12, 10:44 AM
Michelle Steiner <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the left
>> or the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken the
>> correct way up?

>
> Here is how to find out:
>
> 1. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the left, take a picture.
> 2. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the right, take a picture.
> 3. Email both pictures to your computer.
> 4. View both pictures in a web browser.


Not much use if the web browser turns them all the right way up.

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Michelle Steiner
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      Jun 9th, 12, 2:29 PM
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
Brian <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> >> When using the front camera on the iPad should the camera be on the left
> >> or the right to make certain that the landscape photo is taken the
> >> correct way up?

> >
> > Here is how to find out:
> >
> > 1. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the left, take a picture.
> > 2. Hold the iPhone with the lens to the right, take a picture.
> > 3. Email both pictures to your computer.
> > 4. View both pictures in a web browser.

>
> Not much use if the web browser turns them all the right way up.


My experimentation shows that neither Safari, Opera, Firefox, nor Camino
turns them right way up.

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